Most skilled: Walcott, Moore, or Charles

[SBleeder]

How so?

In what area is he overrated?

He's generally underrated. People actually hold the fact that he was never LHW champ against him.

[Bolo Punch]

How so?

In what area is he overrated?

Ahh, this old thread. People seem to love to hate me on this one!

Don't get me wrong, I do think Charles was a great, great fighter - an ATG, no doubt - but I've just always been of the opinion that Moore is the greater of the two. I'm well aware that Charles more or less dominated in their series, but I've previously explained to poet that this is capable of happening even if the guy on the receiving end off losses is the better fighter. Styles make fights. I believe Charles had Moore's number as he himself was a great fighter.

I've just looked through both fighters' records to refresh my memory and I've gotta say, win-for-win over fighters that I consider to be top opposition, it's very close. I can certainly see why people rate Charles over Moore, especially since Charles has three big wins vs. Moore, but I'm going to be stubborn and stick with my original thoughts.

He's generally underrated. People actually hold the fact that he was never LHW champ against him.

This fact doesn't influence my opinion. I don't hold this against Ezzard.

[IronDanHamza]

Ahh, this old thread. People seem to love to hate me on this one!

Don't get me wrong, I do think Charles was a great, great fighter - an ATG, no doubt - but I've just always been of the opinion that Moore is the greater of the two. I'm well aware that Charles more or less dominated in their series, but I've previously explained to poet that this is capable of happening even if the guy on the receiving end off losses is the better fighter. Styles make fights. I believe Charles had Moore's number as he himself was a great fighter.

I've just looked through both fighters' records to refresh my memory and I've gotta say, win-for-win over fighters that I consider to be top opposition, it's very close. I can certainly see why people rate Charles over Moore, especially since Charles has three big wins vs. Moore, but I'm going to be stubborn and stick with my original thoughts.



This fact doesn't influence my opinion. I don't hold this against Ezzard.

On what sense do you think Charles is overrated though? I'm just curious.

I would say his resume is absolutely not overrated. Considering most rank him outside the top 10 despite it being absolutely obvious that his resume is Top 10 calibur.

And in terms to skills, from what I see he's one of the most skilled to ever do it. And H2H very very up the list. Taking the Moore series as just 1 example.

In regards to Moore being greater than Charles. That's a fair opinion. I quite strongly disagree with it but Moore is a Top 10 ATG in my book. Charles I have at #3.

The most knowledgable poster this forum has ever seen IMO, the late GJC, who saw Charles fight live, considered Moore to be the greater fighter of the two. And I'll take his opinion over anyone elses in regards to legitimacy, despite the fact I personally disagree.

My reasoning for Charles being greater than Moore isn't because he beat him 3-0 whilst both in their primes. It of course adds to it, but it's more so to do with him having the better resume IMO. Charles' resume is quite possibly the best resume I've ever seen. In regards to both quality and quantity.

Me personally, I cannot see how he's overrated at all and like SBleeder said, from what I see he's generally underrated most of the time.

[Bolo Punch]

On what sense do you think Charles is overrated though? I'm just curious.

I would say his resume is absolutely not overrated. Considering most rank him outside the top 10 despite it being absolutely obvious that his resume is Top 10 calibur.

Well, just using this as one example, not trying to personally challenge your opinion or anything, but you say later on in this post that you see him as the third best fighter of all-time at any weight. That's a very big call IMO, and as great as his resume and skill-set was, I'm sure that if I were to compile my own P4P list he wouldn't be quite so high up on it. Put it this way, I don't see Archie Moore as the second greatest fighter of all-time.

And in terms to skills, from what I see he's one of the most skilled to ever do it. And H2H very very up the list. Taking the Moore series as just 1 example.

I agree that he was a very highly skilled fighter. Can't knock that.

The most knowledgable poster this forum has ever seen IMO, the late GJC, who saw Charles fight live, considered Moore to be the greater fighter of the two. And I'll take his opinion over anyone elses in regards to legitimacy, despite the fact I personally disagree.

Strange that you should bring this up. This isn't related to the thread, but apart from seeing the name in your sig, I never knew who this GJC guy was until I stumbled across his profile last night. I read a few of his posts including the very last one on his account, written by his grandson. Such a shame that I wasn't a regular on this site until the start of this year from a personal point of view, as I would have loved to have heard some of the man's stories and quizzed him on a few things.

[IronDanHamza]

Well, just using this as one example, not trying to personally challenge your opinion or anything, but you say later on in this post that you see him as the third best fighter of all-time at any weight. That's a very big call IMO, and as great as his resume and skill-set was, I'm sure that if I were to compile my own P4P list he wouldn't be quite so high up on it. Put it this way, I don't see Archie Moore as the second greatest fighter of all-time.



I agree that he was a very highly skilled fighter. Can't knock that.



Strange that you should bring this up. This isn't related to the thread, but apart from seeing the name in your sig, I never knew who this GJC guy was until I stumbled across his profile last night. I read a few of his posts including the very last one on his account, written by his grandson. Such a shame that I wasn't a regular on this site until the start of this year from a personal point of view, as I would have loved to have heard some of the man's stories and quizzed him on a few things.

I just can't see many who have a better resume than him. Resume alone, I can't name 5 fighters who have better ones. 4 I think have an argument are Robinson, Greb, Armstrong and Langford. I really can't see anyone else who beat the quality and quantity that he did.

That's resume alone, not even regarding his unbelievable skill level.

I guess on here I could see you saying he's overrated because most rank him where I do. But, on the bigger picture, most rank him way too low. I see no logical explanation of having him outside the top 10.

GJC was an amazing poster and a friend. One of the closet friends of mine on here. Endless knowledge, the guy had seen it all almost. Amazing to have shared those years with him. He'll always be remembered as a legend on here. Not only that but he was a great guy, never got into any squabbles or resorted to name calling, ever. Even amongst the ignorance on display at times.

Look up some of his posts I'm site you'll enjoy reading them.

[Bolo Punch]

I just can't see many who have a better resume than him. Resume alone, I can't name 5 fighters who have better ones. 4 I think have an argument are Robinson, Greb, Armstrong and Langford. I really can't see anyone else who beat the quality and quantity that he did.

That's resume alone, not even regarding his unbelievable skill level.

I guess on here I could see you saying he's overrated because most rank him where I do. But, on the bigger picture, most rank him way too low. I see no logical explanation of having him outside the top 10.

GJC was an amazing poster and a friend. One of the closet friends of mine on here. Endless knowledge, the guy had seen it all almost. Amazing to have shared those years with him. He'll always be remembered as a legend on here. Not only that but he was a great guy, never got into any squabbles or resorted to name calling, ever. Even amongst the ignorance on display at times.

Look up some of his posts I'm site you'll enjoy reading them.

I won't argue with that. Bar Robinson and his freakishly good career, you could make a case for anyone in and around the top 10 or 20 to be placed in any order, more or less. Charles would surely fall under that bracket.

[Anthony342]

Speaking of legendary poster, whatever happened to HHascup? He seemed very classy and knowledgeable as well.

[BennyST]

I do, but Saddler done almost exactly the same with Willie Pep, as did Gene Fullmer with Sugar Ray (barring that sweet left hook, of course). Even in recent times, people say that Marquez has won the Pacquiao rivalry 3-1 or even 4-0 in some cases. I'd still rate Pep, Robinson and Pacquiao greater than their counterparts though. Styles make fights.

I understand that I may be more or less alone in thinking that Moore is greater that Charles, but that's just my opinion.

Yes, but their careers are also better than their conquerors overall too. Charles has the greater wins, and also beat Moore.

That comparison you made is just wrong IMO. Itd be more like someone saying that Marquez is better than Pac, despite Marquez having lost most of their fights and having a less impressive résumé and career overall.

Charles' great wins go from MW to HW, and he has ATGs at each of those weights.

[mickey malone]

Speaking of legendary poster, whatever happened to HHascup? He seemed very classy and knowledgeable as well.

Henry Hascup is in league of his own, and world renowned as 'the uncrowned king of sports information,' with boxing being his specialist subject..
An absolutely amazing statistition, who's knowledge is sought after by sports writers everywhere.. Believe he's even compiled some of the lists for boxrec..
His list of undefeated fighters is on here somewhere, and is simply astonishing!..
May even dig it out in an attempt to coax him back.

[Anthony342]

Oh please do, I was trying to find a list of undefeated fighters about 3 years ago, so I would love to see his. It's an interesting topic to me. The only notable ones I've found so far are Mayweather, Marciano and Calzaghe. The rest either weren't really tested or had pretty short careers.

So in terms of resumes, Charles has the best one, with Robinson, Greb, Armstrong and Langford in the top 5? So where would guys like Ali and Louis rank? Top 10?