Where Does Mike Tyson Rank As An ATG?

[Mugwump]

I think this idiotic post warrants Ray Corso's trademark response: Have you ever even fought?
It's also a very weak cop-out to to place your argument on a stereotypical myth(I can name you several fights where Tyson overcame adversity while you sit there behind your computer claiming he had no heart) instead of taking the time to use the criteria which I described in the post that you quoted.

I'm sorry - I must have MISSED the caveat "EX-PROFESSIONAL FIGHTERS' OPINION WANTED ONLY"

It was Tyson himself, in his own documentary, who admitted "I'm terrified of being bullied".

And what happened in those fights where Tyson was physically bullied?

He demonstrated his inability to function when bullied.

Suggesting that "Great" fighters find a way of overcoming opponents that inflict serious punishment on them isn't soppy wishful thinking or a revision of history to mythology. It's the fundamental truth that unites all boxing fans when they suggest Roberto Duran or Ali or Sugar Ray Robinson or Barrera etc. was unquestionably "Great".

[BKM-2010]

I'm sorry - I must have MISSED the caveat "EX-PROFESSIONAL FIGHTERS' OPINION WANTED ONLY"

Because your opinion on this specific subject can only be credible if you've actually done it yourself. You can compare records, think one guy fought better fighters and such all you want, but I'm not about to listen to a keyboard warrior claiming a fighter cannot be great because you feel he didn't have heart even though that is false based on video evidence.

It was Tyson himself, in his own documentary, who admitted "I'm terrified of being bullied".

And what happened in those fights where Tyson was physically bullied?

He demonstrated his inability to function when bullied.

He lost because he was outboxed and hit flush with KO punches, they were technical boxing reasons. Also, he did not lose every fight where he got bullied. Are you still ducking what I said about naming some fights for you where you can see Tyson overcome adversity?

Suggesting that "Great" fighters find a way of overcoming opponents that inflict serious punishment on them isn't soppy wishful thinking or a revision of history to mythology. It's the fundamental truth that unites all boxing fans when they suggest Roberto Duran or Ali or Sugar Ray Robinson or Barrera etc. was unquestionably "Great".

There many All Time Great fighters who weren't mentally indestructible in the ring COMPARED TO SOME OF THE MEN YOU MENTIONED.

If you are putting an extremely high standard of mental strength, fine. But acting like a fighter is mentally weak in general just because he wasn't up to part with Holyfield and Frazier, who are quite possibly some of the most gutsy fighters in the history combat sports, is absolutely asinine. It's like saying a guy that is known for pretty fast hands is slower than Ali, therefor he cannot be called a fast fighter. Your posting is based on gimmicks, myths and popularized claims and that's lame.

[The Surgeon]

All is I know he is the LAST guy id ever want to be staring across the ring at me, stone cold killer....

[Sugar Adam Ali]

All is I know he is the LAST guy id ever want to be staring across the ring at me, stone cold killer....

Well said... That pretty much sums him up... He was a true terror and something boxing had never seen before and hasn't seen it since.. He was a true one of a kind fighter

[beez721]

All is I know he is the LAST guy id ever want to be staring across the ring at me, stone cold killer....

yea,,,he may have been the most intimidating heavyweight of all time with his combination of explosiveness and demeanor. George foreman or sonny liston may disagree

[Bushidō]

Tyson is probably one of rarest heavyweights of all time but I don't have him in my top 10.

For me level of opposition and how I feel he would do vs other ATG determines where I put guys

[Pigeons]

12-4 in World Title fights.
11-4-0-1 against former World Champs.
2-1 against IBHOFers. Will be 2-3 once Holyfield is inducted.

Top 20 heavy, top 100 ATG. Tyson is the only thing I knew about boxing until I became an actual fan of the sport. His value to boxing is as much in keeping the sport mainstream as it was his short prime.

[embryo]

He's in my top 50 All Time Greats P4P.

I guarantee you history will treat him a lot better than the present has. He retired much less than a decade ago. It's still very early to cement him in his rightful place. He will go down in the top 15 or 10 all time when we look back in 30-40 years or so.

Nobody ever made the rest of their division look so inferior than Tyson did. It's not that there were no good fighters, there were. He beat up some TOUGH guys. I'll list em if you want, no problem. And then we can debate whether those guys were tough or not. But Tyson was an unbelievable force and revived the sport, saved boxing, and all as a KID! People don't give him nearly enough credit for the fact that he decimated an entire division, the heavyweight division, of professional boxers, the best of the best, at age 19 through 23 years of age. That is just absurd and beyond human.

This guy deserves to be in the top 10 heavyweights of all time, easily. Shouldn't even be a discussion.

Pound for pound all time? Top 30 or 25. This guy single handedly inspired 2 generations of fighters to get into boxing, and transcended sports like Muhammad Ali did...he's doing it right now with his live show, his cartoon, his products, his promotional company, and plenty of other things that no other boxer has ever or will ever do. It's all Tyson and Ali above everyone else, just my opinion. Remember, Muhammad Ali said on Arsenio Hall's shows pointing to Tyson saying "This man is the greatest."

[Scott9945]

Tyson did fight pretty good competition!

Tyson would have wasted Liston who was pretty much identical in ability to Sammy Scaff and he would have belted up Foreman too who was really not much better than James Smith. Both are just too slow to land anything effective or get out of the way of trouble.

And finally, Tyson is one of the only HW boxers who would fare extremely well in terms of lb for lb.

That is proof that you are a clown who can't be taken seriously.

[Ray Corso]

Clown yes and a Tooooll!!!

I rank Tyson very high in the division and I do believe he could have fought in any era with success. As for a number for rankings I think it gets silly when your speaking about the guys that bring KO ability. If they land with accuracy chances are your hurt or stopped. That's why we rank Dempsey and Marciano up there with the taller boxer styled fighters. Younger fans today don't understand that heavy hands can change a fight quickly. Sorry but Wlad is not a one punch power guy his power comes from size and decent technique but he is not master technician.

I think any of the top twenty heavies could compete with whoever thinks is number 1 thru 5. These are heavies and anyone who wants to be in that division can enter it regardless of their weight. You can weight 185 or 350!!
Its an "open weight class"! Just go compete in it and if you can establish yourself then you rise up.

To me Tyson was at his best when his team was still intact and Teddy Atlas was his trainer under Cus. When Teddy quit/fired he still was good but when Cus passed away it was just Jimmy and Kevin and Cayton. Tyson was still ok then but when Jimmy passed away and King snuck in Tyson began to slide!
I'll take Tyson from 17yrs to 23yrs against anyone and he'd do well.
I first saw and met Mike when he was 14 yrs old. I handled him in the J.O. Nationals at the Olympic Training center with Teddy. I last saw and spoke with Mike in Atlantic City when I think he was 20yrs old. The old team was gone and he looked alone. I guess he was.
Ray.