Who Would get Knocked Down First if prime liston vs prime tyson...........

[butterfly1964]

liston was 6ft 1, tyson was 5ft 11". 2inche difference which is nuthin. whereas foreman was 6ft 4 and frazier 5ft 10, 6 inches which is big. liston was lighter then tyson or same. he wudnt be able to push tyson back like foreman did frazier.

foreman was 6'-3", and frazier was 5'-11".

[blockhead]

ever seen frazier-foreman? enough said. liston takes tyson's head off in two or three rounds, tyson goes down about seven times, starting in the first round. liston is hit with a good shot maybe once or twice but is nowhere near going down.

another ****** post from buttfly. no way ever does liston win this fight. tyson was faster stronger smarter and he had a desire to win in his prime that would wave buried liston. liston would have taken a dive for 100 bucks anyways just like he did for ali.

[Brassangel]

another ****** post from buttfly. no way ever does liston win this fight. tyson was faster stronger smarter and he had a desire to win in his prime that would wave buried liston. liston would have taken a dive for 100 bucks anyways just like he did for ali.

While I do think Tyson would win, I doubt that it would have been lopsided. Liston would have held on simply because he had a reach. He wasn't swift enough, nor were his reflexes quick enough to keep away an attacking Tyson. Foreman could punch down at a crab-like Frazier who plodded towards his opponents at a much slower pace that Tyson did. The 1 1/2" that Liston had in height over Tyson means he basically would have been punching straight towards Tyson which is easier for Mike to slip. The 5"-6" height advantage Foreman had over Frazier effectively makes his reach that much greater. It's just science. Throwing downhill has significant advantages to throwing perpendicular. Furthermore, it effectively leaves Liston open for a longer period of time because Tyson wouldn't have to try too hard to expend energy in an upwards motion. This gives Tyson's short reach more leverage than Frazier's could have had against Foreman, along with far more power.

Tyson + multiple advantages = goodnight Liston. I still think it would be a brawl to the finish for two or three fights though.

They should attach a poll to this thread.

[Pugnacious_Z]

LISTON had no HEART

[Dude]

LISTON had no HEART

Neither has Tyson.

Liston gets the first knockdown and wins this fight via KO.

Tyson never faced an opponent close to Listons skills in his so-called prime. Liston on the other hand beat, guess who, Floyd Patterson twice via 1st round KO.

Now we all know that Cus D'Amato perfected his style in Tyson and Patterson. Tyson was faster though and had more power (though his power is overrated) in both hands.

Stylewise Mike Tyson would have a hard time against Liston as Sonny possesed a good, strong jab and was strong enough to hold Tyson if he came to close. As usual Tyson would face a reach and height disadvantage. Liston was more than the unskilled brawler as which he's often presented today. He was fundamentaly sound and had an above average defense by his areas high standards.

Personally I don't believe that Tyson himself would be convinced that he could actually win this fight. Much like why he never wanted a piece of Foreman. There's no way he would intimidate Liston. I'd be the other way round actually.

Prime Tyson loses to a stronger, bigger Liston via 7th round KO. He has his moments before this due to his handspeed and angle-hitting. Ulitmately Liston walks him down and wins the fight with a devastating right that sents a frustrated and beaten Tyson to the canvas.

[Pugnacious_Z]

Tysons chin was better, they hit with around same power, tyson had more heart seeing dat he always took a beating b4 losing, Tysons faster, sharper, more skillful, tyson wud will middle rounds, but it cud also go other way around. and for u sayin tysoin didnt wanna fight foreman, well foreman was better then liston in every way

[butterfly1964]

Tysons chin was better, they hit with around same power, tyson had more heart seeing dat he always took a beating b4 losing, Tysons faster, sharper, more skillful, tyson wud will middle rounds, but it cud also go other way around. and for u sayin tysoin didnt wanna fight foreman, well foreman was better then liston in every way

haha, tyson's chin was better. good one. tyson was ko'd 5 times, three of those times by bums. liston was stopped twice by ali, and the second time he faked it, and he was ko'd by a top contender in leotis martin after flooring martin in the 3rd or 4th when liston was 37 yrs. old. so who has the better chin now? liston and tyson's handspeed was the same.

haha again, "foreman was better than liston in every way", another good joke. the only thing foreman had on liston was punching power and that's it, and not even that much punching power. liston had quicker hands, his punches were way more accurate and he was just an all round better boxer. heck, an old ali made foreman look even more dumb than a young ali made liston look.

bottom line, think before you post Pugnacious_Z, please!

[butterfly1964]

another ****** post from buttfly. no way ever does liston win this fight. tyson was faster stronger smarter and he had a desire to win in his prime that would wave buried liston. liston would have taken a dive for 100 bucks anyways just like he did for ali.

number one, stop calling me buttfly, ok! number two, no way was tyson stronger, in punching power, or physical strength. tyson was manhandled by a cruiserweight moron! liston has the longest reach of any hw champ in history! no way does tyson get in to liston period! watch how liston destroyed a hof'er in his prime, cleveland williams! tyson never beat a hof hw when they were in their prime. friggin' bruno rocked a prime tyson, so imagine what liston could do to him.

[Brassangel]

Bruno rocked...and then lost to Tyson. Liston proved his lack of heart when he went up against a guy with speed. Patterson sat in the corner in both fights and waited to get beat by Liston. George Foreman would have dominated Liston, as his power over Sonny and height give a virtual and physical advantage that Liston couldn't overcome. While it's true that a beyond his years Ali defeated George, that was a style issue. Liston didn't fight in any way like Ali, and didn't make as much use of his reach as everybody seems to think. An arm that long is easier to dodge for a moving Tyson. You people obviously know nothing of science.

Obviously we have entered a vacuum here, with half of the population stating that one side would dominate the other. I must be the only one who thinks that this would be a great fight. Saying that Tyson fought bums is ignorant, as their is a universe of difference in the conditioning of the two eras. Again, nobody here seems to understand science.

On a side note, Leotis Martin was a tool, but so was Sonny Liston after 1963. Secondly, I believe that Dude made some very strong arguments, and I appreciate his input. Butterfly, on the other hand, who I normally have respect for, shows once again that he believes anybody fighting during Ali's era must have been better than the boxers of any other era. Obviously, you are touting Liston as a superfighter to make Ali's victory seem that much greater. That's a common theme across the boards for you, it seems.

Sonny Liston was great. He hit hard, he had reach, and he had intimidation. Mike Tyson hit harder than any opponent Liston faced, so I doubt he could merely wear Mike out; Mike was faster than Liston, and had better defense against lead punches. This would be a mid-to-late brawl, which would end in a knockout in the 7th or 8th round, probably in favor of Iron Mike.

P.S. Liston didn't fake that knockdown against Ali in their second fight. He described it to his wife and later interviewers as a dizzying shot to the temple. He was forced to spin in circles while Ali danced around the ring, which naturally messed with the chemicals in a guy's head (especially since Liston didn't like to chase people), and then, without warning, *pop!* a blind hook catches him in the temple. That's how Sonny Liston described it in his own words. "There's a chance that a punch like that could catch anybody..." he said later. While Ali wasn't known for being a slugger, he was still a heavyweight, which means there's power in there occassionally. If Liston could suffer such a fate to a guy who hit like Ali, I'd hate to see what a guy like Tyson would do to Lison with a few good *pops!*. Old or otherwise.

Still would have been a great fight.

[butterfly1964]

Bruno rocked...and then lost to Tyson. Liston proved his lack of heart when he went up against a guy with speed. Patterson sat in the corner in both fights and waited to get beat by Liston. George Foreman would have dominated Liston, as his power over Sonny and height give a virtual and physical advantage that Liston couldn't overcome. While it's true that a beyond his years Ali defeated George, that was a style issue. Liston didn't fight in any way like Ali, and didn't make as much use of his reach as everybody seems to think. An arm that long is easier to dodge for a moving Tyson. You people obviously know nothing of science.

Obviously we have entered a vacuum here, with half of the population stating that one side would dominate the other. I must be the only one who thinks that this would be a great fight. Saying that Tyson fought bums is ignorant, as their is a universe of difference in the conditioning of the two eras. Again, nobody here seems to understand science.

On a side note, Leotis Martin was a tool, but so was Sonny Liston after 1963. Secondly, I believe that Dude made some very strong arguments, and I appreciate his input. Butterfly, on the other hand, who I normally have respect for, shows once again that he believes anybody fighting during Ali's era must have been better than the boxers of any other era. Obviously, you are touting Liston as a superfighter to make Ali's victory seem that much greater. That's a common theme across the boards for you, it seems.

Sonny Liston was great. He hit hard, he had reach, and he had intimidation. Mike Tyson hit harder than any opponent Liston faced, so I doubt he could merely wear Mike out; Mike was faster than Liston, and had better defense against lead punches. This would be a mid-to-late brawl, which would end in a knockout in the 7th or 8th round, probably in favor of Iron Mike.

P.S. Liston didn't fake that knockdown against Ali in their second fight. He described it to his wife and later interviewers as a dizzying shot to the temple. He was forced to spin in circles while Ali danced around the ring, which naturally messed with the chemicals in a guy's head (especially since Liston didn't like to chase people), and then, without warning, *pop!* a blind hook catches him in the temple. That's how Sonny Liston described it in his own words. "There's a chance that a punch like that could catch anybody..." he said later. While Ali wasn't known for being a slugger, he was still a heavyweight, which means there's power in there occassionally. If Liston could suffer such a fate to a guy who hit like Ali, I'd hate to see what a guy like Tyson would do to Lison with a few good *pops!*. Old or otherwise.

Still would have been a great fight.

yeah, i'm elevating ali's opponents. why can't you just face the fact that they might have been just that good! you say that tyson has more skills than liston. well, let me ask you a question. who has more boxing skills, joe frazier, or george foreman? friggin' frazier that's who! but who would win 10 times out of 10? friggin' foreman that's who! why, cause it's a bad style matchup. everybody expected frazier to wear foreman down and ko him like frazier did to other big men, but it didn't happen, the same applies to tyson and liston. i do believe that tyson has better skills than frazier, and foreman hits harder than liston so it wouldn't last just two rounds, like with foreman-frazier, but it still be a ko or stoppage by about the 5th or 6th round. tyson would just be dominated throughout the fight, the way tyson and frazier goes after opponents would be suicide to guys like liston and foreman. i believe liston could keep opponents away better than foreman, because of his longer reach and quicker hands than foreman, so i believe the fight would be pretty much one-sided.

and to say that liston was really ko'd by a man that couldn't put down doug jones is just hillarious! cleveland williams punches way harder than ali and he couldn't drop liston, and liston was out on his feet multiple times against williams from punishing combinations from the big cat, but sonny didn't go down. so there is no way ali could ko liston with the light punch that took place in lewiston, maine. maybe the way he threw it sent him down possibly, but no way it could keep him down. in fact, liston was down, and he looked across at the fans and saw this guy who expected him to get up. he yelled, "screw you!" cause liston was paid off and just didn't want to fight anymore.