I give Vitali a good chance. "Big" George would be the smaller man to.
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Which HWs past and present would have had a good chance of beating a 70s Foreman?
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Originally posted by Scott9945 View PostForeman won the Lyle fight. Who needs excuses?
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I think after Foreman lost to Ali it took something out of him. He got slower and careless. When he fought Frazier he was sharp and accurate.
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You going to reply to this?
Originally posted by Yaman View PostYou know what I meant. Trying to use the "past prime" excuse for young Foreman is pretty redicilous. Atleast with Tyson you can point to him losing an actual, very elaborate skillset(Cus' number system, peek a boo emphasis etc) by firing his original team, not just his personal life problems.
Ali took his confidence. After that, Foreman was terrified of fighting the same way for fear of gassing out.
You know why Foreman didn't look the same? Because he wasn't fighting the same guys. Norton never dealt well with powerful punchers and Frazier's style fell right into Foreman's (illegal) hands. It's a diffirent ball game when his limited, technically style which only worked for the first few rounds, was up against skilled boxers who could deal with him like Ali and Young.
Ali got inside his head and made Foreman fight a ****** fight where he just came out swinging for the fences from round 1 until the fights end.
Even then, Ali took tremendous punishment to do what he did, punishment I don't think any other heavyweight in history could have taken.
Young put on a good display in the latter half of the fight. That is true. But I don't see the same Foreman (mentally) in there with him as the one that demolished his way to the Rumble In The Jungle. I'm not the only one
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Originally posted by Yaman View PostFrazier was a swarmer who could not fight backwards plus he was even shorter. It was easy for Foreman to just push him backwards on the shoulders and leave him with no alternative as Joe was on his backfoot. Ron Lyle to Foreman is a much better comparison than Frazier to Quarry.
Yes it's not the limited Shavers here but neither is it the similar Lyle who was beaten clearly by Quarry. To write him off based on his losses to ATG's like Ali and Frazier, two completely diffirent styles, doesn't mean that he didn't have the style and tools to beat Foreman. You know very well good fighters have beaten great fighters.Last edited by res; 08-09-2012, 01:07 AM.
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Originally posted by Capaedia View PostSparring doesn't mean very much. Foreman would have been very green, and also very afraid of Liston.
See how he dealt with men he was afraid of later in his career when he was more confident, i.e. Joe Frazier.
Liston was a very, very strong man. But I'd bet money that Foreman is stronger. He's also a more consistently physical fighter
if foreman and and liston were to fight 10 times with all factors remaining equal i feel liston would come away with 6-7 wins. liston had a superior array of skills in defence and boxing ability to call on and for these reasons i feel liston walks away the victor more often than foreman.
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Interesting how Foreman said he was afraid of Frazier in that interview. Ali also claimed being afraid of him. Is it true? Who knows. And if it is true, they deserve all the credit in the world for fighting him the way they did, typically when fighters are scared, it shows and they put on a dismal performance.Last edited by Derranged; 08-09-2012, 05:44 AM.
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Originally posted by Derranged View PostInteresting how Foreman said he was afraid of Frazier in that interview. Ali also claimed being afraid of him. Is it true? Who knows. And if it is true, they deserve all the credit in the world for fighting him the way they did, typically when fighters are scared, it shows and they put on a dismal performance.
He's somewhat suggested as much in interviews.
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Originally posted by Capaedia View PostYou going to reply to this?
With Foreman you can point to him being humiliated, outwitted, outfought and finally knocked out by a massive underdog. Followed by a year long layoff
Ali took his confidence. After that, Foreman was terrified of fighting the same way for fear of gassing out.
Have you seen these fights? Foreman came out looking to soften them up until he got his opening. He showed patience, a gameplan and some overlooked boxing skills. They aren't ATG level, but they were good.
Ali got inside his head and made Foreman fight a ****** fight where he just came out swinging for the fences from round 1 until the fights end.
It's never how good their opponents is, never a consideration that the reason he did this or that wrong is because his skilled opponent MADE him do it, and THEY deserve that credit instead of just claiming Foreman wasn't himself. I mean you claim he fought ****** in his losses but the truth is his opponents simply got the better of him. This imo makes him one of the most overrated heavyweights. He's too adored by a lot of fans and they prefer to remember him as this untouchable, indestructable monster who could only lose to the Greatest. Some fighters get heavily scrutinised for past prime claims but Big George seems to get a free pass. The double standards have annoyed me.
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