Which HWs past and present would have had a good chance of beating a 70s Foreman?

[Mike Tyson77]

I give Vitali a good chance. "Big" George would be the smaller man to.

[BKM-]

Foreman won the Lyle fight. Who needs excuses?

That's what I tell nuthuggers too. But that fight opens up a whole new debate on Foreman's supposed invincibility as a slugger. I can certainly think of better punchers who were more durable than Ron Lyle, and just as if not more powerful than him as well. When you have fights like that floating around I just don't understand threads like this or the idea that nobody but Ali could have beaten prime Foreman. That's not just wrong opinion wise but factually as well because the Young fight did happen.

[StarshipTrooper]

I just don't understand threads like this or the idea that nobody but Ali could have beaten prime Foreman.

Except people are picking Holmes, Liston, and Louis to beat him as well as Ali.

Poet

[them_apples]

I think after Foreman lost to Ali it took something out of him. He got slower and careless. When he fought Frazier he was sharp and accurate.

[Capaedia]

You going to reply to this?

You know what I meant. Trying to use the "past prime" excuse for young Foreman is pretty redicilous. Atleast with Tyson you can point to him losing an actual, very elaborate skillset(Cus' number system, peek a boo emphasis etc) by firing his original team, not just his personal life problems.

With Foreman you can point to him being humiliated, outwitted, outfought and finally knocked out by a massive underdog. Followed by a year long layoff

Ali took his confidence. After that, Foreman was terrified of fighting the same way for fear of gassing out.

You know why Foreman didn't look the same? Because he wasn't fighting the same guys. Norton never dealt well with powerful punchers and Frazier's style fell right into Foreman's (illegal) hands. It's a diffirent ball game when his limited, technically style which only worked for the first few rounds, was up against skilled boxers who could deal with him like Ali and Young.

Have you seen these fights? Foreman came out looking to soften them up until he got his opening. He showed patience, a gameplan and some overlooked boxing skills. They aren't ATG level, but they were good.

Ali got inside his head and made Foreman fight a ****** fight where he just came out swinging for the fences from round 1 until the fights end.

Even then, Ali took tremendous punishment to do what he did, punishment I don't think any other heavyweight in history could have taken.

Young put on a good display in the latter half of the fight. That is true. But I don't see the same Foreman (mentally) in there with him as the one that demolished his way to the Rumble In The Jungle. I'm not the only one

[res]

Frazier was a swarmer who could not fight backwards plus he was even shorter. It was easy for Foreman to just push him backwards on the shoulders and leave him with no alternative as Joe was on his backfoot. Ron Lyle to Foreman is a much better comparison than Frazier to Quarry.

Yes it's not the limited Shavers here but neither is it the similar Lyle who was beaten clearly by Quarry. To write him off based on his losses to ATG's like Ali and Frazier, two completely diffirent styles, doesn't mean that he didn't have the style and tools to beat Foreman. You know very well good fighters have beaten great fighters.

Foreman didn't have Shavers chin problems, and Lyle didn't have Foreman's seek and destroy style. He usually preferred to try to Box.

[VIPrice]

Sparring doesn't mean very much. Foreman would have been very green, and also very afraid of Liston.

See how he dealt with men he was afraid of later in his career when he was more confident, i.e. Joe Frazier.

Liston was a very, very strong man. But I'd bet money that Foreman is stronger. He's also a more consistently physical fighter

i agree: sparring isnt everything, but it is an indicator. in this case with foreman rather green and liston comparitively seasoned it at the least illustrates listons strength is comparable to foremans. as george progressed its unlikely he made incredible gains in strength. as to who is the harder punching, more powerful man prime vs prime, it's hard to say, but it is safe to posit there isn't much in it.

if foreman and and liston were to fight 10 times with all factors remaining equal i feel liston would come away with 6-7 wins. liston had a superior array of skills in defence and boxing ability to call on and for these reasons i feel liston walks away the victor more often than foreman.

[Derranged]

Interesting how Foreman said he was afraid of Frazier in that interview. Ali also claimed being afraid of him. Is it true? Who knows. And if it is true, they deserve all the credit in the world for fighting him the way they did, typically when fighters are scared, it shows and they put on a dismal performance.

[res]

Interesting how Foreman said he was afraid of Frazier in that interview. Ali also claimed being afraid of him. Is it true? Who knows. And if it is true, they deserve all the credit in the world for fighting him the way they did, typically when fighters are scared, it shows and they put on a dismal performance.

I think what Foreman saw in Frazier was what he may have known he lacked as a young man, the ability to keep coming no matter what for as long as it takes.

He's somewhat suggested as much in interviews.

[BKM-]

You going to reply to this?
With Foreman you can point to him being humiliated, outwitted, outfought and finally knocked out by a massive underdog. Followed by a year long layoff

Ali took his confidence. After that, Foreman was terrified of fighting the same way for fear of gassing out.

There's really no need to because these are just filled with excuses, with very little relevancy. I bet these are mostly based on Foreman's own words too, where all of a sudden his comments are taken very seriously.

Have you seen these fights? Foreman came out looking to soften them up until he got his opening. He showed patience, a gameplan and some overlooked boxing skills. They aren't ATG level, but they were good.

Ali got inside his head and made Foreman fight a ****** fight where he just came out swinging for the fences from round 1 until the fights end.

You're really contradicting yourself here though. If it's after the Ali fight, it wasn't the 'real Foreman' because he was past his prime(laughable idea to me, still) and against Ali, it wasn't the 'real Foreman' because he fought ****** and gassed.

It's never how good their opponents is, never a consideration that the reason he did this or that wrong is because his skilled opponent MADE him do it, and THEY deserve that credit instead of just claiming Foreman wasn't himself. I mean you claim he fought ****** in his losses but the truth is his opponents simply got the better of him. This imo makes him one of the most overrated heavyweights. He's too adored by a lot of fans and they prefer to remember him as this untouchable, indestructable monster who could only lose to the Greatest. Some fighters get heavily scrutinised for past prime claims but Big George seems to get a free pass. The double standards have annoyed me.