Does Roy Jones deserve to be considered an elite ATG?

[Shadow boxer 3]

.................yes

[them_apples]

He had some awesome skills back in the '90's but then again, he fought a lot of stiffs. He had beaten James Toney and outpointed Hopkins earlier in his career. Even though he holds wins over them, do you believe he was really superior? He was an excellent fighter but I don't think he was quite as good as Hopkins...

yes. just because he didn't get in any bloody toe to toe wars that make a fighter, he still has aTG wins.

[Mintcar923]

Define savvy.

Roy had every trick, juke, feint, trap that could be used and he executed them flawlessly. Roy didn't just throw fast hands. Roy set traps, roy would feint you twice hit you wth a left hook, and then feint you again. Roy would block your jab and wait for to come in, so he could counter you with his left.

Roy had plenty of savvy, it wasn't all flash.. There was substance and meaning behind his movements.



First of all, how many fighters have TWO All Time Greats on their resume? Not too mention at two different weight classes.

Second, hes got an established list of HOFers on his resume as well Toney, Hopkins, Hill, McCallum, possibly Tarver.



Ohhhh, let me guess.. Toneys weight issues again. Tell me, when in Toneys career did he not have a weight problem? But he went 44-0 and the one time it now mattered is because he happened to be in the ring with Roy... Toney just KNOCKED OUT a fighter only 4 months before he fought Roy... But now Toneys not at his best because, well he lost and had weight issues. Yeah.



Wait a minute... We're gonna talk trash on Roys win over Toney... When they were both prime, both undefeated, Toney was P4p #3 in the world, best fighter in the division coming off a KO win 4 months earlier....

But...

We're gonna bring up Nards revenge win over Roy... When Roy is 41 years old ( and no it doesnt matter Bernard was older, that doesnt somehow mean Roy is still fighting at an elite level just because Bernard is) and coming off a 6 year string of losses and knockouts, and FRESH off a 1 st round tko loss to Danny Green.... And not even mention any of that?




Wait, so we're gonna talk about Toney being not at his best and drained, but we're gonna bring up Nards win over Tarver coming FRESH off a movie filming where he played a heavyweight fighter.



What, brah?

OK... Prez of the RJJ fan club! I never did say Roy wasn't a great fighter. I was just curious as to whether people viewed him as an elite ATG on the level of the Ray Leonards, Hearns, Duran, Hager etc. You cannot say he didn't fight a lot of stiffs. And, yes I forgot to mention his win over Virgil Hill which was impressive. But, you are gonna fault me for ranking Hopkins did a tad higher. He had the best middleweight run since Hagler.

Yes, Hopkins had defeated an "older" Roy. But, then Roy defeated a "greener" Hopkins. Roy was shot later in career which is why he lost to Bernard. Why? Why was Roy all of a sudden was perceived as completely shot to where beating him was meaningless?? While Bernard, who had a somewhat similar career wasn't??? Both, have had great work ethics and took care of themselves very well...

[Barn]

OK... Prez of the RJJ fan club! I never did say Roy wasn't a great fighter. I was just curious as to whether people viewed him as an elite ATG on the level of the Ray Leonards, Hearns, Duran, Hager etc. You cannot say he didn't fight a lot of stiffs. And, yes I forgot to mention his win over Virgil Hill which was impressive. But, you are gonna fault me for ranking Hopkins did a tad higher. He had the best middleweight run since Hagler.

Yes, Hopkins had defeated an "older" Roy. But, then Roy defeated a "greener" Hopkins. Roy was shot later in career which is why he lost to Bernard. Why? Why was Roy all of a sudden was perceived as completely shot to where beating him was meaningless?? While Bernard, who had a somewhat similar career wasn't??? Both, have had great work ethics and took care of themselves very well...

The first fight was much more even than the second, no disputing that.

Roy got KTFO by Danny Green in 1 round one fight previously, already been KO'd brutally against Johnson and Tarver previously as well. Jones was also nearing 40 odd and hadn't done anything interesting in years.

[IronDanHamza]

OK... Prez of the RJJ fan club! I never did say Roy wasn't a great fighter. I was just curious as to whether people viewed him as an elite ATG on the level of the Ray Leonards, Hearns, Duran, Hager etc. You cannot say he didn't fight a lot of stiffs. And, yes I forgot to mention his win over Virgil Hill which was impressive. But, you are gonna fault me for ranking Hopkins did a tad higher. He had the best middleweight run since Hagler.

Yes, Hopkins had defeated an "older" Roy. But, then Roy defeated a "greener" Hopkins. Roy was shot later in career which is why he lost to Bernard. Why? Why was Roy all of a sudden was perceived as completely shot to where beating him was meaningless?? While Bernard, who had a somewhat similar career wasn't??? Both, have had great work ethics and took care of themselves very well...

Both were green in the first fight. Both were close to their prime in the first fight.

In the second fight, one was shot to **** and was getting knocked out in 1 round by a **** fighter and the other was competing at the top level still and still is to this day.

Big difference.

[IIIX JACK XIII]

Most definately, i just wish he would have put a few more names on his resume in the 90's.

[IIIX JACK XIII]

Also im sick of everyone saying he looked unbeatable in his prime, he looked beatable in the first montel Griffin fight.

[Barn]

I wonder where's Obama to tell us that Lupe Aquino win on Hopkins record is better than Lou Del Valle win for Jones .
If Roy Jones isn't elite ATG then who is? But still I'm far from claiming no-one could beat him. I'd say no aggressive fighter, brawler could beat him, but first Griffin fight made me think that Roy could've been tricked and another fight he didn't look particullary good in was against tall southpaw coutnerpuncher when he was forced to initiate more ofter. I don't know light heavyweight and middleweight history all that well, but I'll just put a name of Bob Foster and I'm sure Roy would struggle a lot with his style.

I personally think that Foster style is a bit too methodical therefore easier to time and predict for the speedy Jones. He didn't really change his rhythm throughout a fight. Although Foster was accurate and hard with his jab which could land and discourage Jones. However it's his power where the danger lies and if Foster hits anyone (assuming outdoor arena) there is a chance said person will gain enough upwards velocity so that they can overcome the earth's gravitational pull exceeding the escape velocity and flying off into orbit.

I don't think Roy could fight off the ropes against Foster either, he has a tendency to do that. If he fights Foster he needs to be very mobile in centre ring always allowing himself PLENTY of room to move off. I think he's capable of it personally but, it's a pick 'em in which I do favour Foster although definitely a huge challenge for Bob.

In a 3 fight series I see both picking up losses.

[SCtrojansbaby]

I was just curious as to whether people viewed him as an elite ATG on the level of the Ray Leonards, Hearns, Duran, Hager etc. You cannot say he didn't fight a lot of stiffs.

His resume is what aligns him with Leonard and Duran and what in my opinion puts him well over Hearns and Hagler.

Also who are all these stiffs I might ask? In modern boxing the depth of Roy's resume is matched only by Ali

Jorge Vaca
Jorge Castro
Bernard Hopkins
Thulani Malinga
James Toney
Merqui Sosa
Mike McCallum
Montell Griffin
Reggie Johnson
Eric Harding
Julio Cesar Gonzalez
Clinton Woods
John Ruiz

All of them proven and dangerous opponents not only did Roy beat them he rarely even lost a round.

Not to mention guys who I wouldn't call necessary proven but he also dominated SUPER durable and dangerous guys like Glen Wolfe, Thomas Tate and Tony Thorton(all guys who suffered their only KOs of their career to Roy) and Lou Del Valle

[res]

When? The only time it was really a possibility was if Eubank decided to not fight Collins again which of course Eubank had to do because Collins had taken his belt in a close decision fight

They could have fought back in 93' or 94'. Like Hamza said, I'm sure not saying Roy ducked him (why would he?) just that it would have been another quality name on his resume.