Joe Louis vs both Klitschkos

[Joeyzagz]

alot of the things boxers did in 1890 are being found to be some of the best things for boxing today.

if you look to other sports like track all you have to look at are the shoes to see there have been leaps and bounds in foot wear and track surface over the past 75 years.

jesse owens vs modern day


these are vast improvements in the equipment of the sport that we don't see in boxing, to think the advancements between louis's time and now are more then negligible in my opinion would be incorrect.

If you put Jesse Owens in those light weight shoes and tight aerodynamic uniforms its only going to make him faster. A modern runner going into Owens cumbersome gear would lose speed and control.

In most scenearios Id favor the old timer with new equipment over the pampered contemporary with crude old stuff.

Imagine if you gave old Issac Newton access to a calculator? Hed lap every modern mathematician in less than a month.

[nomadman]

you mentioned how some people have iron chins and they wouldn't even look the part. I agree Louis has an average chin. There are very slim light men with rock solid domes though, and recovery. Holyfield in his prime was 210 lbs. He was essentially, Joe Louis's size only he packed 10 lbs of muscle on.

I forget his name, but Lennox Lewis also went 10 (12?) rounds with that skinny 215 lb euro, who somehow was able to take his shots. Just some examples.

Skull size or durability doesn't always scale with the height and size of a man.

this is a very difficult fight for me to pick, because time and time again we have seen big men chopped down, either by determined smaller men or just skill in general. David Haye, a blown up cruiser (he's not very big regardless of the weight he lifts, his head and hands are small) was able to take flush shots from Wladmir, the bigger puncher of the 2, so it sort of leaves doubts in my mind if the K bros could really finish off a determined guy like Louis. Vitali was tagging an overweight gassed Lewis as well and couldn't seemlying do what a 6'1 Oliver Mccall could do.

There's very little you can do to evaluate someone's punch resistance without actually seeing how they respond to getting hit. Still, there are certain signs that one fighter might be more physically durable than another. Being stocky and big boned, with a short neck and squarish head are generally indicative of solid punch resistance more so than a relatively light framed individual with a longish neck and average to largish skull size.

But like you said there are always exceptions, guys who defy the trend like Zeljko Mavrovic (the skinny Euro who fought Lennox).

With Haye, I think the main reason for his ability to withstand Wlad's shots was that he was absolutely focused on not getting hit. He was hyped up and jumpy, responding to every feint and movement Wlad was doing. When you're that on edge, your body is going to instinctively respond to punches by moving away, taking the sting off the blow. Anyway, it's sort of irrelevant really, because Louis never fought like that and probably wouldn't have been capable of fighting like that. Because of his style, whenever he was hit it was generally flush, with his body bent forward and feet flat on the ground. As Chagaev found out, getting hit flush by Wlad isn't a recipe for success, no matter your chin.

[nomadman]

im not sure what apples means when he says robotic but i definatly see both klitschkos as being robotic in the sense of punching, like if you built a machine to swing a bat compared to a human swinging a bat. the klits are the machine swining the bat, while louis was the human swinging the bat.

There are very few top level heavyweights I'd call genuinely robotic. Robotic as in the sense of having pre-set punching movements which they use again and again without variation. Liston is one, Bruno is another. Vitali is stiff and awkward but I wouldn't exactly call him robotic because he does so many different things in the ring, altering his punch rhythm, shortening his punches, changing angles etc. Of course, all top level boxers do this to some degree, but Vitali seems to do it more than most because he already fights in an unorthodox fashion and lacks the speed and explosiveness of other big time fighters. Therefore he has to make other things work for him.

I don't even know why people consider Wlad robotic. I can only assume it's due to the brotherly connection. His punch selection may be extremely limited, but he's one of the most focused thinking heavies of the modern era, constantly altering his feet, body movement, head position, parrying, feinting, distracting, keeping the opponent out of range and uncertain as to what he's going to do despite knowing full well what he's going to do. That takes skill, no?

Put it this way: if Wlad were robotic he'd have been figured out long before now.

[nomadman]

alot of the things boxers did in 1890 are being found to be some of the best things for boxing today.

if you look to other sports like track all you have to look at are the shoes to see there have been leaps and bounds in foot wear and track surface over the past 75 years.

jesse owens vs modern day


these are vast improvements in the equipment of the sport that we don't see in boxing, to think the advancements between louis's time and now are more then negligible in my opinion would be incorrect.

i mean like alis almost 50 years ago if 75 years is a such a difference surely 50 is too, so in the same sense youd almost have to give it to the klitsckos over ali as well?

There have been big improvements in boxing as well. Better footware, gloves, gumshields not to mention the huge effect that "supplements" have had on the sport. Like I said above, that last point cannot be overlooked.

[Spartacus Sully]

There have been big improvements in boxing as well. Better footware, gloves, gumshields not to mention the huge effect that "supplements" have had on the sport. Like I said above, that last point cannot be overlooked.

gloves arnt better.

gum shields actually weaken the jaw, similar to how shoes effect the foot.

shoes are better? how so? and how does that directly relate to improvements in the ring?

John L sullivan had several diffrent supplements that he would regularly take for all kinds of things, mainly Multivitamin type suppliments, and digestion suppliments. all thats left is protien, which isnt something thats new circa 1990...

No the last point cannot be over looked, but yet you seem to have completly missed it...

ail vs either klitschko, whos winning? i mean if 75 years makes a diffrence 50 must.

[nomadman]

John L sullivan had several diffrent supplements that he would regularly take for all kinds of things, mainly Multivitamin type suppliments, and digestion suppliments. all thats left is protien, which isnt something thats new circa 1990...

I wasn't referring to those. Note the inverted commas...

[Spartacus Sully]

There are very few top level heavyweights I'd call genuinely robotic. Robotic as in the sense of having pre-set punching movements which they use again and again without variation. Liston is one, Bruno is another. Vitali is stiff and awkward but I wouldn't exactly call him robotic because he does so many different things in the ring, altering his punch rhythm, shortening his punches, changing angles etc. Of course, all top level boxers do this to some degree, but Vitali seems to do it more than most because he already fights in an unorthodox fashion and lacks the speed and explosiveness of other big time fighters. Therefore he has to make other things work for him.

I don't even know why people consider Wlad robotic. I can only assume it's due to the brotherly connection. His punch selection may be extremely limited, but he's one of the most focused thinking heavies of the modern era, constantly altering his feet, body movement, head position, parrying, feinting, distracting, keeping the opponent out of range and uncertain as to what he's going to do despite knowing full well what he's going to do. That takes skill, no?

Put it this way: if Wlad were robotic he'd have been figured out long before now.

no, robotic like a machine that swings a bat compared to a person swining a bat.

if you dont understand my comparison ask me to explain it better.

make a fist, now stick you pointer finger out.

make a fist, now use your thumb to flick your pointer finger out.

robotic.

[Spartacus Sully]

I wasn't referring to those. Note the inverted commas...

are you refering to steroids?

ali vrs klitsckos, klitskos win eh?

[JAB5239]

He couldnt defend against a proper right hand. A Klitschko special that would send him straight to hell.

In one fight where he did more golfing than training. You're acting like he was constantly beaten by the ring hand. If that were the case than why couldn't Max Baer do anything? Why couldn't Schmeling repeat his earlier success? Why was Carnera, who's style Vitaly's most resembles, decimated?

[Spartacus Sully]

In one fight where he did more golfing than training. You're acting like he was constantly beaten by the ring hand. If that were the case than why couldn't Max Baer do anything?

and even then he still nearly went 12 rounds with schmelling.