Who was a better role model for Black people? Louis or Ali

[nomadman]

Very difficult question to answer and therefore an excellent question to ask.

I think it really all depends on what you consider a rolemodel's function to be, whether it's to help his people find their unique voice or if it's to provide a paragon of virtue for his people to aspire to in order to assimilate into the society they live in. Ali provided the former, Louis provided the latter. I can't say either man was wrong in what he aspired to be.

Ali of course is the more obvious choice given his flair for theatrics and his incredible charisma. He was a great rolemodel for black youths at the time he was fighting; he brought an outspokenness, a pride and a confidence to black people that they sorely needed at that time in order to break out of the circle of oppression they were subject to. He was a necessary evil, a punch in the guts for an American society that needed to treat their black citizens as equals, not with condescension, not with hatred, not with fear or kneejerk love but with the equality that they would give to any white citizen.

His qualities, however, I can't say are universal, and in this present society I can't in all honesty say he should be looked up to, except as a man who achieved great things through great hardships and remained himself against all attempts to change him. Those who attempt to mimic him, his trashtalking, his confidence and ****iness I find frequently end up conceited, arrogant and obnoxious because they don't understand the times in which he was living and the necessity in what he had to become in order to achieve what he achieved.

Louis on the contrary was quiet and respectful, qualities which for some reason have become villified in today's society, though they really shouldn't be. He was a man whom anyone could respect, regardless of race, and provided those sorts of universal qualities that any person on this planet would recognise as virtuous. I'd say he was a better rolemodel for today's black youth, and for youth in general; he's certainly a man I'd have looked up to were he competing today, much as the Klitschkos are. He provides a more universal model for being a productive and respected memeber of society than Ali was. Which isn't to say he was a better rolemodel of course.

If you were to press me to answer I'd say Louis simply because he embodies virtues which I consider to be more important as a living conscious being on this planet. Ali, however, cannot be questioned in what he achieved, either in its goal or as its worth as a goal.

Both men were great. Let's leave it at that.

[Slip Stream]

The way that the question was posed makes it very difficult for someone to answer if they aren't black. I'm not saying that someone that's white can't empathized with, or even understand certain aspects of the black experience but if you aren't black how can one truly understand what's important to that people? How could one be audacious enough to say who is a better role model if they don't belong to that community?

If the question omitted "black" and just said people, that's a different question entirely that opens it up for anyone to answer but as it stands it's far too specific.

[joseph5620]

The way that the question was posed makes it very difficult for someone to answer if they aren't black. I'm not saying that someone that's white can't empathized with, or even understand certain aspects of the black experience but if you aren't black how can one truly understand what's important to that people? How could one be audacious enough to say who is a better role model if they don't belong to that community?

If the question omitted "black" and just said people, that's a different question entirely that opens it up for anyone to answer but as it stands it's far too specific.

When race is used as a thread topic on boxingscene it never goes well. When idiots like "maniac" post their worthless opinions in here you can see it.

[Slip Stream]

When race is used as a thread topic on boxingscene it never goes well. When idiots like "maniac" post their worthless opinions in here you can see it.

I can see how this is true; when some posters just take too little time to read a post, think about it, and thoughtfully answer it misunderstandings can and do result. Race can be covered and discussed, but I think the difficult part comes in if it's avoided. In the past I've wanted to create threads about race because I wanted BS to know how I felt. There were so many comments about Floyd Mayweather's race and things of a racial nature that had nothing to do with his skill in the ring.

I don't know how many black members there are here but reading about Floyd being a monkey and other various things has been very frustrating and threatening. But I don't want to give up trying to discuss feelings, impressions, and insights as long as they're thoughtful.

[Sugarj]

Very difficult question to answer and therefore an excellent question to ask.

I think it really all depends on what you consider a rolemodel's function to be, wether it's to help his people find their unique voice or if it's to provide a paragon of virtue for his people to aspire to in order to assimilate into the society they live in. Ali provided the former, Louis provided the latter. I can't say either man was wrong in what he aspired to be.

Ali of course is the more obvious choice given his flair for theatrics and his incredible charisma. He was a great rolemodel for black youths at the time he was fighting; he brought an outspokenness, a pride and a confidence to black people that they sorely needed at that time in order to break out of the circle of oppression they were subject to. He was a necessary evil, a punch in the guts for an American society that needed to treat their black citizens as equals, not with condescension, not with hatred, not with fear or kneejerk love but with the equality that they would give to any white citizen.

His qualities, however, I can't say are universal, and in this present society I can't in all honesty say he should be looked up to, except as a man who achieved great things through great hardships and remained himself against all attempts to change him. Those who attempt to mimic him, his trashtalking, his confidence and ****iness I find frequently end up conceited, arrogant and obnoxious because they don't understand the times in which he was living and the necessity in what he had to become in order to achieve what he achieved.

Louis on the contrary was quiet and respectful, qualities which for some reason have become villified in today's society, though they really shouldn't be. He was a man whom anyone could respect, regardless of race, and provided those sorts of universal qualities that any person on this planet would recognise as virtuous. I'd say he was a better rolemodel for today's black youth, and for youth in general; he's certainly a man I'd have looked up to were he competing today, much as the Klitschkos are. He provides a more universal model for being a productive and respected memeber of society than Ali was. Which isn't to say he was a better rolemodel of course.

If you were to press me to answer I'd say Louis simply because he embodies virtues which I consider to be more important as a living conscious being on this planet. Ali, however, cannot be questioned in what he achieved, either in its goal or as its worth as a goal.

Both men were great. Let's leave it at that.

I enjoyed this post.

[Forza]

It's a shame there is no middle ground. Joe Louis was too quiet, Ali bragged and gloated too much.

Nobody is perfect though. And in the savage sport of boxing both are great guys. So louis did some drugs at the end of his boxing days, I don't hold that against him I like a party too. So Ali smacked his wife once (said he deeply regretted it afterwards) and was a little hateful towards whites but as a white man I forgive him as I don't think he hated white people, just hated being hated and I know how that feels.

[GJC]

One thing I always found interesting was that Joe Louis did everything to separate himself from Jack Johnson saying he was going to be a different kind of champion, then when Ali came he did the exact same thing to Joe, saying that he didn't want to be like Joe, and instead admired Jack Johnson more.

It is said that before Joe Louis fought Max Schmeling, that Jack Johnson tried to get in contact with Joe Louis' camp because he said he wanted to show him a few things to make sure he won the fight, but Louis' camp wanted absolutely nothing to do with Johnson. Which is when Johnson told everyone that Schmeling was going to win and told them how he was going to win, but no one believed him until after it happened.

Back to the topic, I think both guys were exactly what was needed for their time. The world needed a Joe Louis type at that time and then needed an Ali type for his time. Jack Johnson on the other hand was just ahead of his time.

Good post I would say more that both men were products of their time. Jack Johnson I think by his nature would be a wild card in any time. Difficult to speak on the effect they had for black people not being black but I don't think Ali would have helped their cause much had he had been around in Louis time. Louis was what was needed for then, an "acceptable" champion for the masses after the divisive Johnson. They probably have more in common than most think. Both manipulated to a point, both ended up losing pretty much all their money and their health but both were fantastic champions. Can't discount their personalities, Louis was a quieter man so whether he could have been a been as much of a spokesman as Ali is doubtful. Didn't care much for the NoI, anyone who promotes division between races isn't for me. Such a shame Ali has not been able to speak these past 20 years he could have done so much good.

[NoLove]

Louis. People like Ali start hate.

[joseph5620]

Louis. People like Ali start hate.

Just another idiot adding a worthless opinion to this ****** thread.

[Dynamite76]

Both in different ways.Louis kept up the goody-goody image in the 40's because he had to, not to say that he wasn't a decent person, he was, but times were different.Ali, as previously mentioned, had the benefit of being in the 60's, so he could definitely speak his mind to some degree.But, unfortunately, both were terrible whoremongers.