prime Jim Jeffries vs prime jack johnson

[QueensburyRules]

I think the race issue is a huge factor when looking at johnson and other black fighters of that era. There is no doubt that they had a tremendously tough time of it back then and their achievements are greater for it. It takes a lot of mental toughness to win a fight when the whole crowd are white and out for your blood.

Jeffries did win a lot of his fights against his contemporaries by being the bigger and stronger man. Fitz and corbett were both beating him handily and they were significantly smaller.

I believe that johnson carried many fighters of the time just to avoid riots if he showed how superior he was. Look at him holding up ketchel as an example He could have finished jeffries earlier if he'd wanted to. I think he was just a big leap forward as a boxer and he'd have beaten jeffries pretty handily prime for prime.

Oh and someone said jeffries ran 100m in ten seconds lol Well the word record at his time was 10.8 so a little bit of an exaggeration there.

- -Mericans ran British yards back then, not meters.

Bob Hayes in the 60s set the record in 9.1 for context.

Anthony Joshua has size and sprinting speed enough to wet the nfl scouts, but wisely earns 30x what he could make in the nfl beating his brains out.

[The Old LefHook]

Who on earth resurrected a 14 year old thread !

Both men said they would lose to each other. This makes me think that perhaps Jeffries ceased to be a racist after getting beaten by Johnson, but again I never met the guy and this discussion is somewhat pointless.

While Jeffries does have a size advantage, Johnson was one of the 5 pre- Ali champs/ 4 pre-60s champs who weighed 6’+ and 200+ pounds in his prime (though he was admittedly the smallest of the 5), so he wasn’t a small man himself and I doubt that’ll determine the whole fight. Johnson was about the size of Briedis while Jeffries was Gassiev-sized, maybe Sanders-sized if I’m being generous.

I think Johnson would win according to the rules of their day.

In a 15 or 12 rounder under modern rules I don’t think Johnson’s style translates too well, so I might favour Jeffries.

It really is a hard question.

Quite simply, the mods are jealous. Their threads go nowhere while mine generate thousands of views and hundreds of posts. This why they cheated me out of trillions of points.

[jack p]

Jeffries outweighed Fitzsimmons by 40 lbs and Corbett by 30 lbs.

The gist of it seems to be that they were more skillfull fighters than him. But because of his size and strength he was able to absorb all their punches and eventually just wear them down.

Yes and here is Jeffries manager and Corbetts former manager describing the fight where Corbett almost won the title back

****After this match Corbett approached me
and begged to be allowed to box Jeffries.

"I know I have not got a chance. Bill," said
he, "but I'm in trouble and need the money.
We will draw a big house, and the loser's end
will be good enough for me."

So, for old times' sake, I made the match.

Jeffries resented it, however. He knew of mv
long friendship for Corbett, and feared some
kind of a job. His su****ions were justified,
in a way, although I was innocent. For it
transpired in a month or so that my old friend
Corbett had deceived me. For six months be-
fore this he had been working quietly in a
gymnasium, restoring himself to condition.
You see, through lack of exercise in the sa-
loon business, he had become "run down"
and everybody thought he was a physical
wreck. When the match was made, Corbett
promptly left for Lakewood and there he did
the marvelous — he remade himself. He was
thirty-six, I think.

Jeffries heard the rumors of Corbett's won-
derful rejuvenation, and became more and
more su****ious. He was training at my house
at Allenhurst, and during the last week he
refused to eat the food that was put before
him until some one else hiad tasted it. Jeffries
attitude — in this and other matters — caused a
decided coolness between us. His su****ion
was so groundless, so unreasonable. He owed


everything to me and I owed nothing to him.
But it was his nature to be su****ious —

By this time Jeffries had got an idea that
he was a wonderful boxer. He proposed to
beat Corbett, who was supposed to be the smart-
est boxer in the ring, at his own game ; that is,
outbox him at long range. You see, Thomas
Ryan, the middleweight champion, who had
almost Corbett's renown as a boxer, had taught
Jeffries how to spar, and had persuaded the
big fellow that he was capable of going into
the ring and defeating Corbett on a scientific
proposition.

Strange to say, the receipts for this contest
were the smallest of any big battle— of the
kind — that had ever been pulled off in New
York — some thirty-five thousand dollars. The
rumor had got into the air that the whole thing
was to be faked, and the public believed it.
Furthermore, they could not see how Corbett
had a chance. But to show how square the
whole thing was,
I made bets on the fight at
the end of the first, second, fourth and tenth
rounds, and when the gong sounded finally, I
stood to lose seven thousand five hundred dol-
lars that I had bet on my man. In fact, I
thought Jeffries would win in one round !

When the men got into the ring Corbett's
condition amazed everybody. He looked as
good, if not better, than when he first fought
Sullivan. Jeffries, following the instructions
of Ryan, started to spar, but Corbett made
him look like a novice — made him look a big-
ger fool than he'd made Sullivan look some
years before. He jabbed and punched him
when and where he pleased, and about the end
of the tenth round got himself together and
hit Jeffries one on the point of the jaw. When
he did that, the whole giant frame shook, and
I was afraid that he was going down. But
that was the end of Corbett's speed. He held
his own up to the sixteenth round, and then
he began to fail. It was youth against age.
Along about the tenth round, when Jeffries
had the worst of it, I spoke to him in his cor-
ner and told him to stop sparring. Ryan, Cor-
bett's second, told me to get out of the corner.

I did so, but quietly sent for a captain of po-
lice who was an old friend of mine and who
came and sat behind me in the corner. The
twentieth round came and Jeffries was still
sparring. Then I got a well-grounded hint
from the other side of ihe ring that if the con-
test went twenty-five rounds Referee White
would declare it a draw. Such a thing would
mean absolute ruin to Jeffries, so at the end
of the twentieth round I jumped into the cor-
ner and said to him, "You will have to fight.
Shut your eyes and hit him You can see that
he is stalling youl'

Ryan interfered again, but I indicated my
police captain friend and told the trainer that
if he didn't keep his mouth shut I would have
him thrown out of the club.

In one more round it was over. Following
my advice, Jeffries bored right in and licked
Corbett — knocked him out cold! I was the
first one to pick Corbett up! "Sorry, Jim,*'
said I, "but it's business" ))

[jack p]

jeffries had a mind he should've figured out racism was wrong

You know what. I think almost everybody
non black i mean,
Had some form of prejudism back then. Even then if they were at the time considered non-racist. They had some prejudice even if they were not consciously aware of it. Or they had some behavior they did not consider as prejudice back then. Today we would consider it as such .
Now i am not saying it as an excuse or giving it a pass.
It was what it was

If Mankind does not learn lessons from the past He is doomed to repeat them

[QueensburyRules]

- -Given mankind has repeated past mistakes from time immemorial, gonna repeat them for the new time immemorial as well.

[The Old LefHook]

Say what you will, Jeff had a powerful brain. Brains against courage.

[jack p]

i screwed this up