prime Jim Jeffries vs prime jack johnson

[KidBlackie]

[[[I really don't know enough about Jeffries as a fighter. But from what I have been reading, he was awesome in his prime. So was Johnson]]]]]]
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Jeffries had a powerful mauling/brawling style that former welter champ Tommy Ryan refined by developing a low crouching style with the left hand up just for Jeffries. Jeffries may have been the most gifted natural athletes of all the heavy champs though his style is crude by modern standards.

Johnson was more versatile and had more overall skills which keep him competitive in the fight until Jeff grinds him down. It'd be like a bull mastiff bull wearing down a German Shepard for the kill.

[butterfly1964]

[[[I really don't know enough about Jeffries as a fighter. But from what I have been reading, he was awesome in his prime. So was Johnson]]]]]]
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Jeffries had a powerful mauling/brawling style that former welter champ Tommy Ryan refined by developing a low crouching style with the left hand up just for Jeffries. Jeffries may have been the most gifted natural athletes of all the heavy champs though his style is crude by modern standards.

Johnson was more versatile and had more overall skills which keep him competitive in the fight until Jeff grinds him down. It'd be like a bull mastiff bull wearing down a German Shepard for the kill.

no, actually its the other way around. johnson wears down jeffries. johnson in his prime was too fast. also note that in the actual fight he was toying with jeffries. he probably could have ended it within 4 or 5 rounds. so a prime jeffries would last maybe 16 to 18 rounds.

[KidBlackie]

[[[[also note that in the actual fight he was toying with jeffries. he probably could have ended it within 4 or 5 rounds. ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]
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Also note that you're a jockstrap cheerleader without the pompoms kid.

Johnson, as I pointed out, did not show a lot of power. He toyed with fighters in pychological warfare to better protect his soft chin. Only Leon was KOed more of all the heavy champs. Try for an early KO and a guy like Johnson ends up on the matt cold as ice.

You act like the Jeffries fight was legit. No fighter has ever come back outta the blue and with 6 yrs ring rust won back his title. It took Big George 7 yrs and another full career to snatch back his title. Just look at the common opponents kid. Jeffries dominates Johnson. End of story.

[j]

can't believe this question is even posted.

jim jeffries himself said he wouldn't be able to beat jack on his best day.

[butterfly1964]

finally someone who knows what he's talking about.

[salsanchezfan]

[[[[also note that in the actual fight he was toying with jeffries. he probably could have ended it within 4 or 5 rounds. ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]
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Also note that you're a jockstrap cheerleader without the pompoms kid.

Johnson, as I pointed out, did not show a lot of power. He toyed with fighters in pychological warfare to better protect his soft chin. Only Leon was KOed more of all the heavy champs. Try for an early KO and a guy like Johnson ends up on the matt cold as ice.

You act like the Jeffries fight was legit. No fighter has ever come back outta the blue and with 6 yrs ring rust won back his title. It took Big George 7 yrs and another full career to snatch back his title. Just look at the common opponents kid. Jeffries dominates Johnson. End of story.

...........Well clearly there IS a question about it, Blackie, or it wouldn't have been posted.

I think it's fair to say Jeffries would far a lot better than in what we saw against Johnson in real life, but the truth of the matter is that we don't really know enough about Jeffries, all 21 fights of him, to properly judge how he'd fare against the all-time greats. We DO know that Johnson fared pretty well against the likes of Langford and Jeanette, probably the best opponents he ever faced, and better than what Jeffires faced in his abbreviated career.

Let's face it; Jeffries's claim to fame were KO's of Jackson (very ill) and Fitz (who was 206 years old, and one hell of a lot smaller). To draw assumptions of an outcome with a fight with Johnson based on this kind of resume is patently ridiculous. Johnson presented levels of difficulty and skill Jeffries never had to face in his prime, and Jeffries would have been too inexperienced to deal with a prime Johnson, at ANY time in his career. The guy only had a handful of fights. There's only so much you can learn in so abbreviated a time. Johnson regularly employed tactics Jeffries had probably never heard of. He was strong and powerful, but far too few fights to properly place him in the upper echelon of the great heavies.

[Da Iceman]

this fight is a good example of tactician vs. brawler

[KidBlackie]

[[[We DO know that Johnson fared pretty well against the likes of Langford and Jeanette, probably the best opponents he ever faced, and better than what Jeffires faced in his abbreviated career.]]]]]
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Hate to be a party ******, but you haven't read any of the material posted here. I've studied the subject. You ain't.

Do you know that Jeannette won 108 bouts in his career, but was 0-3 when he first faced Johnson. Do you really think Johnson faced the best Jeannette? Do you know Langford was a lightweight the year before he faced Johnson who was only the 2nd heavy he had ever faced. Sam beat about 100 more heavies in his career than did Johnson and only weighed 156 for their bout. Do you honestly think Johnson faced the best Langford?

Jeff had 22 bouts, yes, a short career by many measures. However, he faced 6 HOF fighters in 9 of those bouts and only lost one. Only Jackson was past prime. You say Fitz was old, but he held the belt. Who in the hell was Jeffries supposed to face? All I know is that Jeff faced and beat the best of his era and retired. Johnson beat a lot of fighters, but not the best heavies of his era when he held the belt and was supposed to be the champ.

[Kid Achilles]

Kid is right, Johnson definitely drew the color line himself. Don't criticize Dempsey and Jeffries and yet somehow let Papa Jack off the hook.

[snap the jab]

finally someone who knows what he's talking about.

None of us know what we're talking about when it comes to this question, because none of us have ever seen either of these guys fight. Seeing a few clips on that great PBS documentary doesn't get any of us to the point where we can really evaluate either one of these guys as fighters. Best we can do is compare their records and talk about things like Jeffries' long absence from the ring and his big weight drop in the months before the fight... but even with information like that it's all still just loose speculation.

On the racism issue - yeah, Jeffries was super racist, but as far as I could tell from that PBS show most white people were, back then. Remember that nasty quote from that editorial that the LA Times ran after the Johnson/Jeffries fight, about how black people shouldn't feel good about themselves etc. just because Johnson won? Brutal stuff. I was disgusted, and I'm not even black - it was just so cruel and spiteful...