How would Jack Johnson versus Joe Louis play out

[IronDanHamza]

How does it play out?

Not well for Jack Johnson.

[RubenSonny]

However, Johnson punched with superb combinations. Check out the films. The Burns fight and even some of the early rounds against Willard demonstrate that he was every bit as good a combination puncher as Louis.

I don't understand why people say Johnson never punched in combination.

[NChristo]

How does it play out?

Not well for Jack Johnson.

This, I wrote quite a big piece on this and quite a bit replying to Rockin's always negative criticism of old boxers and apparently how 'crude' they were but my electric went :/.

Now, I can't be bothered writing it all again, so just say that I think that it isn't Joe Louis' jab that would trouble Johnson as he could parry it away but Louis' combinations which would spell the end for Johnson in the mid rounds of an ugly fight.

[GJC]

Think Louis should catch up with him but Johnson would give Louis a lot of trouble IMO not inconceivable that Louis might make a mistake and Johnson could beat him though. Very smart fighter Johnson if Schmelling could spot flaws in Louis, Johnson certainly could.

[Sugarj]

I don't understand why people say Johnson never punched in combination.

I know, it doesn't take too much effort to watch a few films. You tube may well have a few highlight reels.

I seem to remember Johnson battering Tommy Burns from pillar to post with fusillades of uppercuts, straight rights and his speciality winging left hooks.

I also seem to remember him in one of the earlier rounds with Willard rattling off a spectacular eight to ten punch combination that sent Willard across the ring.

There were fights that he deliberately prolonged with clinching, showboating and single blows, the Jeffries fight jumps to mind. He would sometimes turn up for fights hungover and out of shape. But anyone who has seriously studied Johnson will know that he was decades ahead of his time......and that he was a seriously good combination puncher.

One or two have speculated that Louis's jab might have caused Johnson problems, well Johnson had a rapid rapier like jab himself.

Back in the 30s and 40s there were quite a few who had watched both fight in their primes. Many favoured Johnson over Louis.....

[Sugarj]

Think Louis should catch up with him but Johnson would give Louis a lot of trouble IMO not inconceivable that Louis might make a mistake and Johnson could beat him though. Very smart fighter Johnson if Schmelling could spot flaws in Louis, Johnson certainly could.

Johnson spotted the same flaw in Louis before the Schmelling fight. He offered to help Louis and even offered to be his trainer, but was not even politely declined!

I gather that Johnson was quite churlish about Louis after the Schmelling loss.

As for Louis catching him up, I don't think 15 rounds would be enough for Louis to pull it off. Johnson was so good at mauling, clinching, slowing pace, moving and parrying and he'd been used to years of doing this for well over 15 rounds. Plus, for my money he was a touch bigger and stronger than Louis......he'd be boss in the clinches, and even if he did ship punishment; his chin was damn good too.

Its a good match, I'd pay to watch it!

[NChristo]

Johnson spotted the same flaw in Louis before the Schmelling fight. He offered to help Louis and even offered to be his trainer, but was not even politely declined!

I gather that Johnson was quite churlish about Louis after the Schmelling loss.

As for Louis catching him up, I don't think 15 rounds would be enough for Louis to pull it off. Johnson was so good at mauling, clinching, slowing pace, moving and parrying and he'd been used to years of doing this for well over 15 rounds. Plus, for my money he was a touch bigger and stronger than Louis......he'd be boss in the clinches, and even if he did ship punishment; his chin was damn good too.

Its a good match, I'd pay to watch it!

The longer the fight goes on the better it gets for Johnson for the reasons you named, don't know if he was bigger then Louis' though.

Getting into the clinches is where in the danger lies, Johnson definitely wins on the inside but too get the he has to get past Louis' comfortable range and Johnson's defense relied mostly on clinching, parrying and footwork. Parrying is not very good defense for combinations and where in Johnson had the footwork to get away he was always looking for that chance to eventually rush and get inside too rough his opponent up.

Imo Louis catches him coming in, Johnson's chin was good but Louis is putting away anyone with enough punches. If he doesn't catch him coming in then he is patient / good enough to capitalize on that moment after the clinch where Johnson backs of with his hands down.

Johnson would have to fight the perfect fight and box from the outside which just wasn't his style, any of his antics here spell the end for him.

[Sugarj]

The longer the fight goes on the better it gets for Johnson for the reasons you named, don't know if he was bigger then Louis' though.

Getting into the clinches is where in the danger lies, Johnson definitely wins on the inside but too get the he has to get past Louis' comfortable range and Johnson's defense relied mostly on clinching, parrying and footwork. Parrying is not very good defense for combinations and where in Johnson had the footwork to get away he was always looking for that chance to eventually rush and get inside too rough his opponent up.

Imo Louis catches him coming in, Johnson's chin was good but Louis is putting away anyone with enough punches. If he doesn't catch him coming in then he is patient / good enough to capitalize on that moment after the clinch where Johnson backs of with his hands down.

Johnson would have to fight the perfect fight and box from the outside which just wasn't his style, any of his antics here spell the end for him.

To be fair their sizes are more similar than I'd remembered, in their respective primes Johnson outweighed Louis by around half a stone, but I suppose its not much.

As for the fight, I don't see Johnson being aggressor. I can see Louis shuffling forward having some success with the jab but not getting close enough to get combinations off. I think Johnson would be quick to tie up when in range and whip in the odd nasty uppercut when he had a free hand.

True, Louis's best chances would arrive when Johnson rushed him with uppercuts and hooks before clinching but I've got a feeling Louis would ship punishment at the same time. Louis had slightly the heavier hands but Johnson the better chin. I don't favour one over the other in terms of handspeed.

Another factor that hasn't been touched on is mental games. Johnson was a master at getting a man off his game, frustrating and humiliating opponents. Louis was so solid mentally, but I'm not sure how he would handle Johnson's taunts, applause and references to his mother etc. It might cause Louis to fight with more pace and reckless abandon than we'd be used to seeing.

[Terry A]

[QUOTE=Sugarj;11287715]
I seem to remember Johnson battering Tommy Burns from pillar to post with fusillades of uppercuts, straight rights and his speciality winging left hooks.
QUOTE]

With all due respect SugarJ, Tommy Burns is no Joe Louis.

Joe Louis did that to most everybody he fought. Remember what he did to Schmeling the 2nd time out?

Joe Louis beats JJ in what most likely would be a distance fight. If there was to be a KO, naturally, it would be Joe KOing JJ.

[GoogleMe]

Johnson by K.O in the 11th