How does Calzaghe vs Hagler play out at SMW?

[jjbj2]

You guys try and keep your debate civil, ok? I just want to point out though that Hearns is the one who ko'd Duran, not the other way around.

Got it.

Also, I apologize for spreading misinformation.

I was looking at Boxrec and mixed up the boxers' names. And just went full blast without looking at it better.

Apologies.

[joseph5620]

Well, I don't see you writing anything substantive. All you wrote pretty much is to attack me. I don't care what your opinion is about me.

You don't know anything because you just wrote a bunch of nonsense.

Support your facts.

Thomas Hearns is naturally taller than Marvin Hagler. 6'1 can't be misunderstood against a 5'9.5 fighter.

Also, Thomas Hearns is like Diego Corrales 5'10 who fought at lower weights starting from Super Featherweight and like Paul Williams at 6'1 who fought at Welterweight.

The average height of Super Featherweights are usually 5'5 to 5'8 range and Welterweight being 5'7 to 5'10. It isn't surprising to see taller men rule a division if the average height is 3 to 4 inches below them. Look at the Klitschko brothers dominance in the Heavyweight division too tall for any 6'1 fighter. You basically need a 7 feet fighter who can move like Ali and **** like Foreman to beat the Klitschko brothers.

I would say Roberto Duran at 5'7 is the better fighter because he beat a 6'1 fighter named Thomas Hearns in the Junior Middleweight division by KO and won against Iran Barkley another 6'1 fighter by SD. It means Roberto Duran being called the Hand of Stone wasn't a made up nickname.

So, height really do play a major role. Attacking me won't explain your point.

Also, telling me that Joe Calzaghe sucks as a boxer is just baseless talk. The guy went undefeated in his career, fought named fighters, and had KO power. To say Calzaghe is a bum is baseless too bad no black American beat him.


Even Hopkins trying to fight dirty by clinching and tiring Calzaghe out. No effect, Calzaghe just slapped his way out just like what he will do Hagler.

Oh look at this Leonard running in circles against Hagler.


Yea, comeback to me and tell how Hagler is going to fight this Calzaghe who stood toe-to-toe against Mikel Kessler just to show you his different styles.


Joe Calzaghe can't get beat and won't be beat by a careerist Middleweight who feasted on careerist Lightweight (Duran) and Welterweight (Hearns).

Please, you get the hell out until you prove your point with facts and videos.

And stop showing me videos of Hagler going toe-to-toe against his opponents I can do that with Antonio Margarito too. Also, Hagler doesn't make a habit of clinching so I have a good case to make that Hagler will go down against a taller boxer who is a ****er also. Just imagine John Mugabi at least at 5'11 like Joe and I would bet Hagler would have been TKO'ed even Hagler admitted he was gassing out, tired, and hurt in his fight against a 5'8.5 fighter.

Hagler did not fight his entire career against fighters moving up from 147-154. Either you're misinformed or lying because that isn't true. Those are facts that I support. I've never shown you any videos of Hagler and I don't need youtube to get information on him like you tried to do (and failed). Your ridiculous claim that 2 inches in added height would have resulted in a KO win for Mugabi is beyond ******. Hagler crushed at least 3 fighters over 6-ft tall in Fulgencio Obelmejias, Hearns, and Sugar Ray Seales. Those are facts that you requested.


And I never once said Calzaghe ****** so don't start lying. I have a lot of respect for Calzaghe but his career doesn't come close to matching Hagler's. My philosophy is if you don't know don't talk about it. And you clearly don't know what you're talking about here. The fact that you made a long post full of BS to make up for what you don't know is not respectable. And finally, Hagler was not "gassing out and hurt" against Mugabi, so stop with the lies.

[Mugwump]

Having watched a bunch of Calzaghe and Hagler matches on Youtube. Let me just bring some facts, analysis, and opinions in it.

...

Great post. I'm not sure I agree with your conclusions but you put forward a well-constructed argument demonstrating logical thinking, evidence and plenty of effort. It makes a refreshing change from the increasing levels of brainless nonsense that gets spouted lately.

Well done.

[StarshipTrooper]

Great post. I'm not sure I agree with your conclusions but you put forward a well-constructed argument demonstrating logical thinking, evidence and plenty of effort. It makes a refreshing change from the increasing levels of brainless nonsense that gets spouted lately.

Well done.

All the "logic" in the world is worthless is your starting premises are wrong. In his case he's arguing "logically" not only from bad premises but he's also arguing about things that are irrelevant to the outcome of the matchup. Case in point: Height, the single most overrated physical trait in boxing.

Poet

[DarkTerror88]

All the "logic" in the world is worthless is your starting premises are wrong. In his case he's arguing "logically" not only from bad premises but he's also arguing about things that are irrelevant to the outcome of the matchup. Case in point: Height, the single most overrated physical trait in boxing.

Poet

When he said Hagler was a slugger/brawler I completely ignored the rest of what he had to say.

Hagler is one of, if not THE most versatile boxers in the grand old history. With a top 5 ATG chin, 15 round stanina (and not that tired at the end neither), good speed, good power, great technique and footwork, incredible defense when counter punching. Good inside fighting. Piston jab, good hooks, great uppercuts and the ability to basically do anything in the ring. Oh and he can do all this, Left handed AND right handed.

Name me another fighter who was THIS versatile.

[joseph5620]

Great post. I'm not sure I agree with your conclusions but you put forward a well-constructed argument demonstrating logical thinking, evidence and plenty of effort. It makes a refreshing change from the increasing levels of brainless nonsense that gets spouted lately.

Well done.

When you have to guess the outcome of a fight by skimming over boxrec that speaks for itself. Claiming that Duran knocked out Hearns is not "logical" and it damn sure isn't evidence. His post was full of **** from the beginning and that's why he left this thread in shame. If there is any "brainless nonsense" it's when the argument is based on misinformation and lies.The effort put into it doesnt make it respectable.

[Kid McCoy]

Also, before Hagler fought Leonard most of Hagler's opponents were come forward boxers who traded with him and were destroyed in the exchanges.

Willie Monroe chose to fight from the outside against Marvin Hagler

Bobby Watts did the same too.

I am beginning to think that Leonard watched these two fights to get a better idea of who was Marvin Hagler what were his weaknesses. Lastly, Leonard is taller than Hagler if the records are to be believed.

Monroe won a decision against Hagler in their first fight, but Hagler knocked him out in two rematches. Watts also won a decision against Hagler (for what it's worth I thought Hagler deserved to win) and Hagler KO'd him in a rematch too. Whatever issues he had with those guys, he was still getting to them.

Calzaghe's advantages here are size and a style that could bother Hagler. Hagler did beat Hearns, who won titles at 168 and 175, and Sibson and Fully Obel, who later became solid 168lbers, but never fought that high himself. Hagler has the superior skills, is a great counterpuncher, can switch hit, has a better chin, hits harder and proved himself against a higher level of opposition. If he adjusts well to the new weight he should win but Calzaghe does have the tools to pull off an upset.

[Mugwump]

When you have to guess the outcome of a fight by skimming over boxrec that speaks for itself. Claiming that Duran knocked out Hearns is not "logical" and it damn sure isn't evidence. His post was full of **** from the beginning and that's why he left this thread in shame. If there is any "brainless nonsense" it's when the argument is based on misinformation and lies.The effort put into it doesnt make it respectable.

I never said I agreed with the post so there's really no need for tears.

[joseph5620]

I never said I agreed with the post so there's really no need for tears.

You never said you disagreed with it either. In fact, you said his post was a "well-constructed argument demonstrating logical thinking, evidence and plenty of effort"


And I don't recall shedding any tears over this. Did you?

[New England]

When he said Hagler was a slugger/brawler I completely ignored the rest of what he had to say.

Hagler is one of, if not THE most versatile boxers in the grand old history. With a top 5 ATG chin, 15 round stanina (and not that tired at the end neither), good speed, good power, great technique and footwork, incredible defense when counter punching. Good inside fighting. Piston jab, good hooks, great uppercuts and the ability to basically do anything in the ring. Oh and he can do all this, Left handed AND right handed.

Name me another fighter who was THIS versatile.

ray robinson
joe louis barrow
ray leonard
roberto duran

not bad company, really.



unbelievably well rounded boxer was hagler both in terms of his physical tool and the skillset he built around them


its my opinion that the perception that he was a brawler comes in part from the role he played as the toughest guy of the fab four

he was also seen as the largest (even though hearns finished his career as a CW and was many inches taller and a few longer in reach, and was only a WW basically as a youth,)
and some people associate that with being less skilled (being on a tier or in a group with smaller men might appear to be a sign of a lack of skill to somebody who clearly hasnt seen the man fight)


it's always easy to spot the guys who "learned" about fighters from the past by watching some highlight videos and legendary nights on HBO



to the guy who is presently getting it handed to him:

most of the regular posters here have been following boxing for more than ten years (reading, watching fights, discussing with others with real knowledge)


if you keep your eyes open (and perhaps your mouth shut,) i garantee you will learn and you will learn quickly. you also wont be the first person to show up posting with a boatload of confidence, get ripped, and never return