How does Calzaghe vs Hagler play out at SMW?

[CarlosG815]

Calzaghe shouldn't even be talked about in the same thread as Hagler. He shouldn't even be mentioned next to his name and a debate as to how a fantasy fight would play out should be 100% lopsided votes to Hagler, assuming the people know what they're talking about.

[IMDAZED]

Calzaghe would be hitting air all night and tasting plenty of leather in return. I can't think of a single category where he has the advantage.

[DarkTerror88]

Hagler was a brilliant counterpuncher. he slips Joes punches and counters with a straight left - right hook all night. Then later on Hagler brings out his left uppercut. *shudders*

Hagler Decision.

[jjbj2]

Having watched a bunch of Calzaghe and Hagler matches on Youtube. Let me just bring some facts, analysis, and opinions in it.

Joe Calzaghe:

Record: 46 Wins with 32 KOs no Loss

Height: 5 feet and 11 inches

Tallest fighters he faced and won against:

Decision wins:
Mike Kessler - 6 feet and 1 inch
Bernard Hopkins - 6 feet and 1 inch
Sakio Bika - 6 feet even

KO wins:
Mario Veit - 6 feet and 3 inches by way of KO (tallest fighter Calzaghe KO'ed)
Will McIntyre - 6 feet even
Richie Woodhall - 6 feet and 1.5 inch

Analysis of Joe Calzaghe's KO rate:
Most of his KO's are against small fighters average height of 5 feet and 9 inches. Also, most of his KO rate came from tomato cans as well. I counted 15 tomato cans in his KO rate.

Tomato can - I use this reference due to the fact that when he got to those boxers they were already a beaten fighter an example is Pat Lawlor's record stood at 21 Wins and 9 Losses (4 KO losses) at Calzaghe's 18th professional fight with a regional title British Super Middleweight title.

Style of fighter:
Boxer fighter against taller fighters - he shows great restraint never to aim for KO's or toe-to-toe battle against taller fighters. Evidence of his slapping jab combinations are indicative of a boxer who has strict discipline and caution against taller fighters.

Boxer puncher against smaller fighters - he shows flair and KO penchant against smaller fighters especially against those he deems with weak power.

Also, an underrated counter puncher.

Marvin Marvelous Hagler:

Record: 62 Wins with 52 KOs with 3 Losses

Height: 5 feet and 9.5 inches

Type of Fighter:
Inside fighter.
Power puncher.
Limited ring generalship.
Strong stamina.

Tallest fighters he faced and won against:

Decision wins:
Most against smaller fighters whose heights range from 5 feet 7 inches to 5 feet 9 inches.
Roberto Duran - 5 feet and 7 inches
John Mugabi - 5 feet and 8 inches

KO wins:
Thomas Hearns - 6 feet and 1 inch
Wilford Scypion - 5 feet and 11 inches
Sugar Ray Seales - 6 feet and 1 inch

Analysis of Hagler's KO wins:
Hagler fought tomato cans as well. I am getting it out of the way. He fought tomato cans up to his first world title fight. However, the difference between Calzaghe and Hagler is that Hagler KO'ed many named and famous fighters unlike Calzaghe. Also, it needs to be pointed out though that Hagler's KO wins came from smaller fighters with the exception of Thomas Hearns and a few named fighters of that time.

Further analyzed 70% of Hagler's KO came from smaller fighters and 30% from taller fighters 5 feet and 10 inches and up.

While, 75% of Calzaghe's KO came from smaller fighters and 25% from taller fighters.

Now, remember this if Calzaghe has a KO rate of 70% against smaller fighters ranging from 5 feet and 10 inches and below then it is a good indication that he might trade it up against Hagler going toe-to-toe due to his penchant of knocking out smaller fighters. Hagler, however, has a 30% KO rate against taller fighters.

This is going to be an exciting match-up.

However, I see this as a Decision win for Calzaghe the reason is he is too tall and too big. Calzaghe spent his career as a Super Middleweight and undefeated boxer in that division as well. While Marin Hagler spent his career as a Middleweight fighting Welterweights and Junior Middleweights coming up in weight.

Think about this deeply. Calzaghe spent his career a Super Middleweight absolutely he fought boxers coming in weight against Welterweights, Junior Middleweights and Middleweights as well. Still, he is better conditioned for that division. And Calzaghe showed great ring generalship against Mikel Kessler, Roy Jones, and Bernard Hopkins. We know that Hagler struggles against boxers with good footwork and Sugar Ray Leonard helped in exposing that weakness. We also don't know what career Hagler would have if he continued boxing after his loss to Leonard. Would the boxers of that era exploit that weakness that Leonard showed and make it their blueprint in beating Hagler? Also, before Hagler fought Leonard most of Hagler's opponents were come forward boxers who traded with him and were destroyed in the exchanges.


Willie Monroe chose to fight from the outside against Marvin Hagler


Bobby Watts did the same too.

I am beginning to think that Leonard watched these two fights to get a better idea of who was Marvin Hagler what were his weaknesses. Lastly, Leonard is taller than Hagler if the records are to be believed.

I hope I made sense in my position.

I did this having no agenda and just trying to bring a different way in discussing and analyzing how the greats of today would stand against the great of yesterday. Because if we are going by record then we have to analyze everything not just the name of the fighters.

Also, to reiterate I have Joe Calzaghe winning by decision against Marvin Hagler.

1). Joe Calzaghe will respect Hagler's strength therefore he will fight outside as he did numerous times in his boxing career against power punchers.

2). Ring generalship will be Hagler's weakness. Joe Calzaghe always fights outside against good opponents indicative of his fight against Mikel Kessler, Bernard Hopkins, and Roy Jones Jr.


I say decision because we have to consider that:

1). Hagler trained his whole career to fight in championship titles for 15 rounds so if we magically transport a Hagler of 80's against a Calzaghe of early 2000's then we have a fighter with too much stamina.

2). Also, we might see a Hagler who would relentless from Round 5 to the end throwing power punches to the body and head of Calzaghe whenever he traps and catch-up on him.

3). Then again we might have a slow footed and flat footed Hagler for 12 rounds still.

[DarkTerror88]

Joey stops Hagler in 7, peppering him with blazing combinations against the ropes in a fight known as The Saint David's Day Massacre. Hagler never boxes again, attempts suicide twice (the second time by reclining in a La-Z-Boy and slugging whiskey shots while repeatedly striking himself, open-palmed, in the face nonstop for 32 consecutive hours until he was found by concerned neighbours who were wondering what all the slapping noises were about), is declared insane, dies in an asylum. The end.

Some nice men in white coats are going to come take you for a ride now.....

[joseph5620]

Having watched a bunch of Calzaghe and Hagler matches on Youtube. Let me just bring some facts, analysis, and opinions in it.

Joe Calzaghe:

Record: 46 Wins with 32 KOs no Loss

Height: 5 feet and 11 inches

Tallest fighters he faced and won against:

Decision wins:
Mike Kessler - 6 feet and 1 inch
Bernard Hopkins - 6 feet and 1 inch
Sakio Bika - 6 feet even

KO wins:
Mario Veit - 6 feet and 3 inches by way of KO (tallest fighter Calzaghe KO'ed)
Will McIntyre - 6 feet even
Richie Woodhall - 6 feet and 1.5 inch

Analysis of Joe Calzaghe's KO rate:
Most of his KO's are against small fighters average height of 5 feet and 9 inches. Also, most of his KO rate came from tomato cans as well. I counted 15 tomato cans in his KO rate.
Tomato can - I use this reference due to the fact that when he got to those boxers they were already a beaten fighter an example is Pat Lawlor's record stood at 21 Wins and 9 Losses (4 KO losses) at Calzaghe's 18th professional fight with a regional title British Super Middleweight title.

Style of fighter:
Boxer fighter against taller fighters - he shows great restraint never to aim for KO's or toe-to-toe battle against taller fighters. Evidence of his slapping jab combinations are indicative of a boxer who has strict discipline and caution against taller fighters.

Boxer puncher against smaller fighters - he shows flair and KO penchant against smaller fighters especially against those he deems with weak power.

Also, an underrated counter puncher.

Marvin Marvelous Hagler:

Record: 62 Wins with 52 KOs with 3 Losses

Height: 5 feet and 9.5 inches

Type of Fighter:
Inside fighter.
Power puncher.
Limited ring generalship.
Strong stamina.

Tallest fighters he faced and won against:

Decision wins:
Most against smaller fighters whose heights range from 5 feet 7 inches to 5 feet 9 inches.
Roberto Duran - 5 feet and 7 inches
John Mugabi - 5 feet and 8 inches

KO wins:
Thomas Hearns - 6 feet and 1 inch
Wilford Scypion - 5 feet and 11 inches
Sugar Ray Seales - 6 feet and 1 inch

Analysis of Hagler's KO wins:
Hagler fought tomato cans as well. I am getting it out of the way. He fought tomato cans up to his first world title fight. However, the difference between Calzaghe and Hagler is that Hagler KO'ed many named and famous fighters unlike Calzaghe. Also, it needs to be pointed out though that Hagler's KO wins came from smaller fighters with the exception of Thomas Hearns and a few named fighters of that time.

Further analyzed 70% of Hagler's KO came from smaller fighters and 30% from taller fighters 5 feet and 10 inches and up.

While, 75% of Calzaghe's KO came from smaller fighters and 25% from taller fighters.

Now, remember this if Calzaghe has a KO rate of 70% against smaller fighters ranging from 5 feet and 10 inches and below then it is a good indication that he might trade it up against Hagler going toe-to-toe due to his penchant of knocking out smaller fighters. Hagler, however, has a 30% KO rate against taller fighters.

This is going to be an exciting match-up.

However, I see this as a Decision win for Calzaghe the reason is he is too tall and too big. Calzaghe spent his career as a Super Middleweight and undefeated boxer in that division as well. While Marin Hagler spent his career as a Middleweight fighting Welterweights and Junior Middleweights coming up in weight.

Think about this deeply. Calzaghe spent his career a Super Middleweight absolutely he fought boxers coming in weight against Welterweights, Junior Middleweights and Middleweights as well. Still, he is better conditioned for that division. And Calzaghe showed great ring generalship against Mikel Kessler, Roy Jones, and Bernard Hopkins. We know that Hagler struggles against boxers with good footwork and Sugar Ray Leonard helped in exposing that weakness. We also don't know what career Hagler would have if he continued boxing after his loss to Leonard. Would the boxers of that era exploit that weakness that Leonard showed and make it their blueprint in beating Hagler? Also, before Hagler fought Leonard most of Hagler's opponents were come forward boxers who traded with him and were destroyed in the exchanges.


Willie Monroe chose to fight from the outside against Marvin Hagler


Bobby Watts did the same too.

I am beginning to think that Leonard watched these two fights to get a better idea of who was Marvin Hagler what were his weaknesses. Lastly, Leonard is taller than Hagler if the records are to be believed.

I hope I made sense in my position.

I did this having no agenda and just trying to bring a different way in discussing and analyzing how the greats of today would stand against the great of yesterday. Because if we are going by record then we have to analyze everything not just the name of the fighters.

Also, to reiterate I have Joe Calzaghe winning by decision against Marvin Hagler.

1). Joe Calzaghe will respect Hagler's strength therefore he will fight outside as he did numerous times in his boxing career against power punchers.

2). Ring generalship will be Hagler's weakness. Joe Calzaghe always fights outside against good opponents indicative of his fight against Mikel Kessler, Bernard Hopkins, and Roy Jones Jr.


I say decision because we have to consider that:

1). Hagler trained his whole career to fight in championship titles for 15 rounds so if we magically transport a Hagler of 80's against a Calzaghe of early 2000's then we have a fighter with too much stamina.

2). Also, we might see a Hagler who would relentless from Round 5 to the end throwing power punches to the body and head of Calzaghe whenever he traps and catch-up on him.

3). Then again we might have a slow footed and flat footed Hagler for 12 rounds still.

That's a bunch of crap right there. Calzaghe "too tall" for Hagler lol? You're basing your analysis almost entirely on the heights from a handful of their opponents which is a weak analysis to say the least. Quality of opposition goes a lot further. And Hagler did not spend his career fighting welterweights and junior middleweights coming up. That right there tells me you are not looking at this objectively and you damn sure are not using facts.


Also, this claim that Hearns is smaller than Hagler is a myth. Hearns is natrually bigger than Hagler and actually came in heavier than Hagler for their fight. When you describe Hagler as just an "inside power puncher with limited ring generalship", it clearly shows you don't know what the hell you're talking about.Using using two fights you watched on youtube to sum up Hagler's career is ridiculous.

[jjbj2]

That's a bunch of crap right there. Calzaghe "too tall" for Hagler lol? You're basing your analysis almost entirely on the heights from a handful of their opponents which is a weak analysis to say the least. Quality of opposition goes a lot further. And Hagler did not spend his career fighting welterweights and junior middleweights coming up. That right there tells me you are not looking at this objectively and you damn sure are not using facts.


Also, this claim that Hearns is smaller than Hagler is a myth. Hearns is natrually bigger than Hagler and actually came in heavier than Hagler for their fight. When you describe Hagler as just an "inside power puncher with limited ring generalship", it clearly shows you don't know what the hell you're talking about.Using using two fights you watched on youtube to sum up Hagler's career is ridiculous.

Well, I don't see you writing anything substantive. All you wrote pretty much is to attack me. I don't care what your opinion is about me.

You don't know anything because you just wrote a bunch of nonsense.

Support your facts.

Thomas Hearns is naturally taller than Marvin Hagler. 6'1 can't be misunderstood against a 5'9.5 fighter.

Also, Thomas Hearns is like Diego Corrales 5'10 who fought at lower weights starting from Super Featherweight and like Paul Williams at 6'1 who fought at Welterweight.

The average height of Super Featherweights are usually 5'5 to 5'8 range and Welterweight being 5'7 to 5'10. It isn't surprising to see taller men rule a division if the average height is 3 to 4 inches below them. Look at the Klitschko brothers dominance in the Heavyweight division too tall for any 6'1 fighter. You basically need a 7 feet fighter who can move like Ali and **** like Foreman to beat the Klitschko brothers.

I would say Roberto Duran at 5'7 is the better fighter because he beat a 6'1 fighter named Thomas Hearns in the Junior Middleweight division by KO and won against Iran Barkley another 6'1 fighter by SD. It means Roberto Duran being called the Hand of Stone wasn't a made up nickname.

So, height really do play a major role. Attacking me won't explain your point.

Also, telling me that Joe Calzaghe sucks as a boxer is just baseless talk. The guy went undefeated in his career, fought named fighters, and had KO power. To say Calzaghe is a bum is baseless too bad no black American beat him.


Even Hopkins trying to fight dirty by clinching and tiring Calzaghe out. No effect, Calzaghe just slapped his way out just like what he will do Hagler.

Oh look at this Leonard running in circles against Hagler.


Yea, comeback to me and tell how Hagler is going to fight this Calzaghe who stood toe-to-toe against Mikel Kessler just to show you his different styles.


Joe Calzaghe can't get beat and won't be beat by a careerist Middleweight who feasted on careerist Lightweight (Duran) and Welterweight (Hearns).

Please, you get the hell out until you prove your point with facts and videos.

And stop showing me videos of Hagler going toe-to-toe against his opponents I can do that with Antonio Margarito too. Also, Hagler doesn't make a habit of clinching so I have a good case to make that Hagler will go down against a taller boxer who is a ****er also. Just imagine John Mugabi at least at 5'11 like Joe and I would bet Hagler would have been TKO'ed even Hagler admitted he was gassing out, tired, and hurt in his fight against a 5'8.5 fighter.

[New England]

hagler via kayo in the 8th or 9th

legit kayo, with joe on the ground unable to get to his feet after ten

[JAB5239]

]I would say Roberto Duran at 5'7 is the better fighter because he beat a 6'1 fighter named Thomas Hearns in the Junior Middleweight division by KO[/B] and won against Iran Barkley another 6'1 fighter by SD. It means Roberto Duran being called the Hand of Stone wasn't a made up nickname.

You guys try and keep your debate civil, ok? I just want to point out though that Hearns is the one who ko'd Duran, not the other way around.

[New England]

You guys try and keep your debate civil, ok? I just want to point out though that Hearns is the one who ko'd Duran, not the other way around.

i wasn't going to touch that post but i'm glad somebody did.