Modern boxing: the improvements and decline

[New England]

Inside/clinch fighting is becoming a lost art. The jab also.

i've felt like the slippery canvas with all the advertisements is killing the jab and fighting in the center of the ring.


you cant have a power jab if you cant step forward

[Marchegiano]

I'll be honest. I stopped reading after the bit about stamina being about the same. Absolute rubbish. timeless bouts are dead bud. There isn't a man a live able to go 110 rounds.

[StarshipTrooper]

I'll be honest. I stopped reading after the bit about stamina being about the same. Absolute rubbish. timeless bouts are dead bud. There isn't a man a live able to go 110 rounds.

A lot of the current crop can't even go 10 without gassing.....and they don't even have the excuse of maintaining a high workrate. If anything workrate has been dropping overall in recent years.

Poet

[gatorDelux]

fenting, defense, jabing, infighting, toughness and seasoning have declined a bit

everyone here should read "the arc of boxing: rise and decline of the sweat science"

its a good read on this topic

[DarkTerror88]

Work reate has gone to the crapper.

The big dog in my area. I just went 8 rounds with him in my 11th pro fight. I threw-and landed- more punches in the first round than he did the whole fight. He was exhausted after round 3.

I think boxing has become about money and promoting instead of fighting. I call it "*****ification"

[them_apples]

I'll be honest. I stopped reading after the bit about stamina being about the same. Absolute rubbish. timeless bouts are dead bud. There isn't a man a live able to go 110 rounds.

No, just because you can go 100 rounds doesn't mean they were in better shape. watching those old fights take into account them sitting in the middle of the ring with there arms down taking huge breaks because neither of them have the power to knock eachother out.

Thats the hilarious part, even those 20 round bouts you saw them looking dead exhausted, hardly jumping around with there hands up.

Any modern fighter could do that and look exactly the same. Just because its not commissioned doesn't mean they couldn't.

[them_apples]

A lot of the current crop can't even go 10 without gassing.....and they don't even have the excuse of maintaining a high workrate. If anything workrate has been dropping overall in recent years.

Poet

it has, but some also maintain and excellent workrate.

See my other post above this also. There is a difference between going 20+ rounds and boxing 20+ rounds.

even a person like me could go 20 rounds, just i'd look like **** after round 4.

[them_apples]

smelling salts create a completely different dynamic heading down the stretch in terms of the amount of work to help a fighter recuperate that can be done by his corner


they get the job done in terms of "waking you up" but they don't bring your legs back, etc. thats heart and conditioning

im not exactly sure when they were barred, but their presence was significant


the conditioning and level of talent of the big men in the sport has declined greatly recently

there are far less fighters today, and less fighters will generally mean lesser fighters if math exists.

there aren't many local shows or local fighters and rivalries
those shows and regional rivalries used to be the lifeblood and feeder system into the big time

today you have a television based career for most name fighters, as opposed to a ticket selling based career.
very few fighters are a regional draw in america

it's shocking how few people show up at these fights (tim bradley, paul williams, andre berto, none of these guys can sell tickets, for example. they cant even fill a 2000 seat club, and yet they get seven figures from HBO for one fight)

could be because of ppv and now even the internet.

people are starting to watch movies now at home as well.

I'm sure theatres are talking the same way, I rarely go to theatres. Back in the day i'm sure every weekend they were jammed full.

[kendom]

nah a feint is a fake. i'm talking the typical moving of hands to make an attack unpredictable. Could be good or bad now that it's done. Lowers your defense and can be timed, at the same time - your are easier to predict. Whats your take?

Sorry for the late reply, I think that when you're seasoned enough you can get away with them, with head movement/anticipation. Shoulder feints can be tactical moves, a maneuver to get the opponent to do what you want them to do, and then counter attack accordingly.

[McGoorty]

conditioning wise:

hand speed has been increased.

We have seen gradual increases in hand speed over the years, besides the athletic freaks of each era.

Robinson was really the only guy with great hand speed for his time, since then we have seen many with equivalent or better.

So taking into account how fast would Robinson be with the improvements of today? Probably similar to Roy Jones.

Stamina has stayed relatively the same. you have fighters with good or bad stamina. mostly because it's from sparring and running, Something boxers have done for years.

Strength/power: has stayed the same. Don't go by weight class go by actual fight night weight.

you can't put on muscle and say fighters are stronger, they have to go up a weight class. cutting weight because you get 2 days isn't an athletic enhancement, it just means Duran at 135 could have fought at 130 if he wanted too. Although, going by todays standards - the boxers that don't cut surprisingly do the best.

the main difference is boxing style. Now, there are a lot of old tricks lost in boxing, but fundamentally it's improved (sorry some may disagree). So it's hard to pin point if it's got better or worse.

You see a lot less moving of hands and shoulder bouncing now, athletes are more controlled and telegraph less. Thats really the biggest improvement in my opinion. At the same time though, trainers aren't as good and boxers don't know as much.

Durability: A lot of boxers in the past were very tough and could recuperate immensely. A modern example is Marquez. you can drop him but he get's up, he survives. Going by my own experience in boxing gyms, people just don't like getting hit any more. I think it's good to have fights not getting hit, but in sparring - condition yourself. Thats why 186 lb Rocky was so damn tough.

Feel free to add on or argue: my main points are really style and speed being the only big changes.

for a start, the hand speed thing is NOT true,... Robinson the only name you can come up with ????..... There was Willie Pep.... no featherweight today could toch him,.. he'd easily outpoint any FW in the last 40 years,.... What about Packey McFarland... lightning... Pancho Villa... lightning..... Young Griffo,.. lightning..........Abe Attell.... Sam Langford... Harry Greb..... Les Darcy,.. Kid Gavilan,... Henry Armstrong.... Floyd Patterson.... Barbados Joe Walcott.... Freddie Welsh...... Barney Ross....................................These guys were just some of the guys with lightning in their hands.... Mickey Walker was damn quick too.... Tony Canzoneri... the list goes om.... Sammy Mandell & Jimmy McLarnin.////....... most of these guys also had sledgehammers fir fists...... They were fitter, more experienced, had a better and larger training pool............. They had inner city gyms in the U.S. that had more great fighters and trainers than you'll see on 40 pay-per view events,.... if you don't believe me google "Stillman's gym".......... up to and over 20 world champions on any single given day............... and I mean Champions when there was 9 weight divisions max and only occasionally some multiple claimants in some divisions.... see the MW and LHW divisions during the 10's and 30's........ two awesome decades brimming with talent...... McGoorty has spoken.