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Modern boxing: the improvements and decline

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  • Modern boxing: the improvements and decline

    conditioning wise:

    hand speed has been increased.

    We have seen gradual increases in hand speed over the years, besides the athletic freaks of each era.

    Robinson was really the only guy with great hand speed for his time, since then we have seen many with equivalent or better.

    So taking into account how fast would Robinson be with the improvements of today? Probably similar to Roy Jones.

    Stamina has stayed relatively the same. you have fighters with good or bad stamina. mostly because it's from sparring and running, Something boxers have done for years.

    Strength/power: has stayed the same. Don't go by weight class go by actual fight night weight.

    you can't put on muscle and say fighters are stronger, they have to go up a weight class. cutting weight because you get 2 days isn't an athletic enhancement, it just means Duran at 135 could have fought at 130 if he wanted too. Although, going by todays standards - the boxers that don't cut surprisingly do the best.

    the main difference is boxing style. Now, there are a lot of old tricks lost in boxing, but fundamentally it's improved (sorry some may disagree). So it's hard to pin point if it's got better or worse.

    You see a lot less moving of hands and shoulder bouncing now, athletes are more controlled and telegraph less. Thats really the biggest improvement in my opinion. At the same time though, trainers aren't as good and boxers don't know as much.

    Durability: A lot of boxers in the past were very tough and could recuperate immensely. A modern example is Marquez. you can drop him but he get's up, he survives. Going by my own experience in boxing gyms, people just don't like getting hit any more. I think it's good to have fights not getting hit, but in sparring - condition yourself. Thats why 186 lb Rocky was so damn tough.

    Feel free to add on or argue: my main points are really style and speed being the only big changes.

  • #2
    Originally posted by them_apples View Post
    conditioning wise:

    hand speed has been increased.

    We have seen gradual increases in hand speed over the years, besides the athletic freaks of each era.

    Robinson was really the only guy with great hand speed for his time, since then we have seen many with equivalent or better.

    So taking into account how fast would Robinson be with the improvements of today? Probably similar to Roy Jones.

    Stamina has stayed relatively the same. you have fighters with good or bad stamina. mostly because it's from sparring and running, Something boxers have done for years.

    Strength/power: has stayed the same. Don't go by weight class go by actual fight night weight.

    you can't put on muscle and say fighters are stronger, they have to go up a weight class. cutting weight because you get 2 days isn't an athletic enhancement, it just means Duran at 135 could have fought at 130 if he wanted too. Although, going by todays standards - the boxers that don't cut surprisingly do the best.

    the main difference is boxing style. Now, there are a lot of old tricks lost in boxing, but fundamentally it's improved (sorry some may disagree). So it's hard to pin point if it's got better or worse.

    You see a lot less moving of hands and shoulder bouncing now, athletes are more controlled and telegraph less. Thats really the biggest improvement in my opinion. At the same time though, trainers aren't as good and boxers don't know as much.

    Durability: A lot of boxers in the past were very tough and could recuperate immensely. A modern example is Marquez. you can drop him but he get's up, he survives. Going by my own experience in boxing gyms, people just don't like getting hit any more. I think it's good to have fights not getting hit, but in sparring - condition yourself. Thats why 186 lb Rocky was so damn tough.

    Feel free to add on or argue: my main points are really style and speed being the only big changes.
    Are you talking about feints??

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    • #3
      Originally posted by kendom View Post
      Are you talking about feints??
      nah a feint is a fake. i'm talking the typical moving of hands to make an attack unpredictable. Could be good or bad now that it's done. Lowers your defense and can be timed, at the same time - your are easier to predict. Whats your take?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by them_apples View Post
        nah a feint is a fake. i'm talking the typical moving of hands to make an attack unpredictable. Could be good or bad now that it's done. Lowers your defense and can be timed, at the same time - your are easier to predict. Whats your take?
        i think the technicals skills and overall grit and toughness has declined

        and the nutrition, athletic training and have improved

        i think oldschool from the mid 30's to the early nintey was pretty damn strong

        but it has dulled down a litlle IMO

        but fighters can have longer carrers now cause of nutrition and more advanced training

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by them_apples View Post
          nah a feint is a fake. i'm talking the typical moving of hands to make an attack unpredictable. Could be good or bad now that it's done. Lowers your defense and can be timed, at the same time - your are easier to predict. Whats your take?
          so what if it lowers ur defence

          u can slip punches too if ur hands are down

          also u can draw a guy in like that

          feinting and faking and lurreing guys iton one punch ko's is a lost art now a little

          Comment


          • #6
            I disagree with handspeed, I don't think you can tell by sight with different cameras, lighting, glove size etc. For example, that video of insane speed video of Pac obviously looks incredibly fast but hes never looked like that in a fight.

            Comment


            • #7
              smelling salts create a completely different dynamic heading down the stretch in terms of the amount of work to help a fighter recuperate that can be done by his corner


              they get the job done in terms of "waking you up" but they don't bring your legs back, etc. thats heart and conditioning

              im not exactly sure when they were barred, but their presence was significant


              the conditioning and level of talent of the big men in the sport has declined greatly recently

              there are far less fighters today, and less fighters will generally mean lesser fighters if math exists.

              there aren't many local shows or local fighters and rivalries
              those shows and regional rivalries used to be the lifeblood and feeder system into the big time

              today you have a television based career for most name fighters, as opposed to a ticket selling based career.
              very few fighters are a regional draw in america

              it's shocking how few people show up at these fights (tim bradley, paul williams, andre berto, none of these guys can sell tickets, for example. they cant even fill a 2000 seat club, and yet they get seven figures from HBO for one fight)
              Last edited by New England; 09-07-2011, 06:41 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by New England View Post
                smelling salts create a completely different dynamic heading down the stretch in terms of the amount of work to help a fighter recuperate that can be done by his corner


                they get the job done in terms of "waking you up" but they don't bring your legs back, etc. thats heart and conditioning

                im not exactly sure when they were barred, but their presence was significant


                the conditioning and level of talent of the big men in the sport has declined greatly recently

                there are far less fighters today, and less fighters will generally mean lesser fighters if math exists.

                there aren't many local shows or local fighters and rivalries
                those shows and regional rivalries used to be the lifeblood and feeder system into the big time

                today you have a television based career for most name fighters, as opposed to a ticket selling based career.
                very few fighters are a regional draw in america

                it's shocking how few people show up at these fights (tim bradley, paul williams, andre berto, none of these guys can sell tickets, for example. they cant even fill a 2000 seat club, and yet they get seven figures from HBO for one fight)
                good post....

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ghns1133 View Post
                  good post....
                  to quote a great man who wasn't talking about boxing specifically

                  "when i nail it
                  it stays nailed."
                  ^^

                  peter manfredo is a better draw than tim bradley.

                  seriously. the guy is the pride of providence.


                  gary shaw has done nothing to sell tickets for that guy outside of maybe putting a bumper sticker on his prius.
                  Last edited by New England; 09-07-2011, 08:53 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Inside/clinch fighting is becoming a lost art. The jab also.

                    Comment

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