Joe lous vs Ali?

[gatorDelux]

Whenever people try rank the no 1 heavyweight of all time ali and joe louis are the two names that come up the most...

Who do you guys think whould win?...

How and why?....


My thoughts:

I think Joe had trouble with boxers who gave him allot of angles and used good footwork and combos(billy conn)...

And that was pretty much alis game ...

But if joe lous faught the right type of crowding fight his speed and short acurate and exposive punches could definatly hurt ali....



when ever i play it out in my head i usually see joe having moments were he hurts and maybe drops ali...

but... i think ali 15rd UD some thing like 9-6 or 10-5

so....

What do you guys think

[Wild Blue Yonda]

I think Louis would just get to him at some point. He had magnificent composure. Long after other greats would've wilted mentally if Ali were ahead, Louis would stay in the game...& I suspect he'd be rewarded.

Louis.

[lightsout_finit]

Ali would win but I think Louis would give him all kinds of hell.

I believe at his best Brown Bomber beats any heavyweight that ever lived except Ali.

[EdMon917]

I think Louis would find a way to beat him honestly, hard matchup to predict for me, I like both guys a lot.

[Marcov]

I have Ali by split decision(15) but Louis would land some punches no on else could.

[Sugarj]

I've got Ali by decision. Stylistically its a horrible matchup for Joe Louis.

You only have to watch Louis vs Farr, Conn and Walcott to see the trouble he had with movers who were either smaller, older or inferior to prime Ali.

The game to beat prime Ali was pressure, relentless Joe Frazier like aggression. The guys who would give prime Ali problems would be the Fraziers, Marciano's and 'prime' Tysons......and even then, I have my doubts as to whether even 1971 Frazier would beat late 1966/ early 1967 Ali.

Louis was adept at cutting off the ring, but he wasn't really a pressure fighter, more a patient stalker. He'd have his moments sure (hell his hands were damn quick), but I think over 12 or 15 rounds he'd be largely outscored from a distance by Ali's superior reach. Prime Ali was so quick on his feet and hard to hit.

Prime Louis might well beat the Ali of the 70s though. Louis was too precise for rope a dope to be a good strategy. Ali's only hope in the 70s would be to fight an Ali vs Frazier 2 type fight............and if it was staged for 15 rounds, that would be a tough ask to maintain that type of mobility and pace.

[Capaedia]

Louis would have knocked out Ali late.

Imagine the surprise Ali is going to get when he leans back to dodge what turns out to be a feint, and then is hit by the actual punch while off balance?

In fact, Louis watched him fight and laid out a plan to beat him which would later be used, successfully, by Joe Frazier. I love Frazier but he was not quite Louis.

Here's said plan

“The kid has speed and there’s no one around to outbox him, and the opponent who tries is in his grave. Especially in the middle if the ring. I’d see to it that Clay didn’t stay in ring center. No. He’d be hit into those ropes as near a corner as I could get him. If he stayed on the ropes he would get hurt. Sooner or later he’d try to bounce off, when he did he would get hurt more. I’d press him, cut down his speed, and **** him around the ribs. I’d punish the body. “Kill the body and the head will die”, Chappie use to tell me. It figures. Sooner or later he’d forget about that face of his and he would start dropping that left hand like he did against Mildenberger and Chuvalo. Those fellows got their openings by accident, and fouled it up. I would work for it and wouldn’t reckon to miss when it arrived.”

Just google a section of that to see where I got that from, its also got a very nice examination of how the fight may have went. I can't post links yet

My conclusion, to quote Louis:
"Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali is a nice boy and a smart fighter. But I am sure Joe Louis would have licked him."

[Sugarj]

The problem is, Ali's chin and ability to absorb punishment are legendary. Predicting a win for Louis is one thing, but a late KO over the guy who was never KO'd?

It seems to give Ali little credit over Billy Conn.

And...

'Imagine the surprise Ali is going to get when he leans back to dodge what turns out to be a feint, and then is hit by the actual punch while off balance?'

Come on, we're talking about a very seasoned and experienced amateur Olympic champion who will have had to deal with all manner of feints. Sure, Louis would catch him and no doubt do very well at times. But prime Ali was a masterful boxer, I could see Louis missing punches far more than usual, which is not something he'd have been used to.

Hell, I'm in a minority judging by the poll results. I'm a little surprised that many favour Holmes over Louis in the other active poll, but Louis is favoured over Ali. Was Ali not everything that Holmes was, but not a bit more?

I've never felt that prime Louis was really that tough a fight for prime Ali. But I do think that prime Louis would have dispatched certain Ali opponents in a more conclusive way.

They're both two of the greatest heavyweights ever. I just dont favour Louis stylistically here.

[Capaedia]

The problem is, Ali's chin and ability to absorb punishment are legendary. Predicting a win for Louis is one thing, but a late KO over the guy who was never KO'd?

Always a first time. You saw how shaky Frazier got him in their first fight. Louis is probably one of the best finishers ever. If Ali keeps getting back up, then Louis had the ability to keep putting him back down until a ref or corner stoppage.

It seems to give Ali little credit over Billy Conn.

Louis showed up to that fight intentionally dehydrated to make the lowest weight possible because he didn't want the fight to be dismissed as a 'big guy beating up on a little guy'

Look at their second fight.

'Imagine the surprise Ali is going to get when he leans back to dodge what turns out to be a feint, and then is hit by the actual punch while off balance?'

Come on, we're talking about a very seasoned and experienced amateur Olympic champion who will have had to deal with all manner of feints. Sure, Louis would catch him and no doubt do very well at times. But prime Ali was a masterful boxer, I could see Louis missing punches far more than usual, which is not something he'd have been used to.

How many people did Ali fight that threw feints? I don't remember any. Louis threw a lot of them. Feints are a very good reason NOT to try and lean out of the way of punches as Ali often did. I think Louis would force him to stop leaning away from punches and take away a major part of his defense in doing so.

Hell, I'm in a minority judging by the poll results. I'm a little surprised that many favour Holmes over Louis in the other active poll, but Louis is favoured over Ali. Was Ali not everything that Holmes was, but not a bit more?

Sometimes Holmes tried to imitate Ali at times, but he was really a different fighter with a few similarities. His own style got him the best results.

[StarshipTrooper]

Louis would have knocked out Ali late.

Imagine the surprise Ali is going to get when he leans back to dodge what turns out to be a feint, and then is hit by the actual punch while off balance?

In fact, Louis watched him fight and laid out a plan to beat him which would later be used, successfully, by Joe Frazier. I love Frazier but he was not quite Louis.

Here's said plan

“The kid has speed and there’s no one around to outbox him, and the opponent who tries is in his grave. Especially in the middle if the ring. I’d see to it that Clay didn’t stay in ring center. No. He’d be hit into those ropes as near a corner as I could get him. If he stayed on the ropes he would get hurt. Sooner or later he’d try to bounce off, when he did he would get hurt more. I’d press him, cut down his speed, and **** him around the ribs. I’d punish the body. “Kill the body and the head will die”, Chappie use to tell me. It figures. Sooner or later he’d forget about that face of his and he would start dropping that left hand like he did against Mildenberger and Chuvalo. Those fellows got their openings by accident, and fouled it up. I would work for it and wouldn’t reckon to miss when it arrived.”

Just google a section of that to see where I got that from, its also got a very nice examination of how the fight may have went. I can't post links yet

My conclusion, to quote Louis:
"Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali is a nice boy and a smart fighter. But I am sure Joe Louis would have licked him."

I posted that article here in it's entirety a few months back.

Poet