Is marciano's win over Joe Louis underrated?

**JAB5239** · 07-20-2011, 01:44 PM

Originally posted by Forza

I thought joe louis really was in his late 40's and completely shot to **** when he fought marciano. Turns out he was only 37, was on a 8 fight winning streak and only had 2 loses at the time of the fight.

For sure not a prime joe louis, but you can't completely disregard this win.

Louis was still a good heavyweight, just not near the fighter he had once been. It's pretty clear to see his speed and reflexes weren't even close to being what they once were. On top of this he only came back because he needed the money. That leads me to believe his heart wasn't in it the way it was when he was hungry to be the best.

On the other hand I think the first Charles victory is a bit under rated. Charles was also slipping at this point, but when Rocky got his nose split the fight was in extreme danger of being stopped and he knew it. With everything on the line he went out there and took care of business, taking it out of the hands of the ref, judges or doctor.

**MonsieurGeorges** · 07-20-2011, 02:01 PM

So many overrate it and so mant underrate it so I would say it's right in the middle where it belongs. Its not a great win, but it was spectacular and if I'm not mistaken it was the smart business move at the time, which I acknowledge means nothing to some people

**BigStereotype** · 07-20-2011, 02:09 PM

Nah, I don't think it really adds to Marciano's legacy. It's a good scalp on his belt, but Louis was shot as far as a world-championship level goes.

**Sugarj** · 07-21-2011, 04:48 AM

Originally posted by JAB5239

Louis was still a good heavyweight, just not near the fighter he had once been. It's pretty clear to see his speed and reflexes weren't even close to being what they once were. On top of this he only came back because he needed the money. That leads me to believe his heart wasn't in it the way it was when he was hungry to be the best.

On the other hand I think the first Charles victory is a bit under rated. Charles was also slipping at this point, but when Rocky got his nose split the fight was in extreme danger of being stopped and he knew it. With everything on the line he went out there and took care of business, taking it out of the hands of the ref, judges or doctor.

Agreed, Louis looked old and short of zip when facing Ezzard Charles a year or so earlier. He didn't look terrible early on against Rocky, but he was clearly far from being the fighter he once was.

I fear that it was the second Charles fight where Rocky had his nose split though. The first fight went to decision......great fight!

**Greatest1942** · 07-21-2011, 06:15 AM

Louis was coming off a knockout of the #2 contender, and alphabet champion, Savold, and victories over Brion, a top ten man at the time, and Bivins, a future Hall-of-Famer and a man who still had it in him to reach #6 contender in monthly 1952 ratings.He was still good.

When I see Louis vs Charles he looks worse than his later fights. Understanably he was coming off a lay off. Once he started fighting he did better. I think his knock out of Savold is under rated.

I once had the film of LOuis - Valentino... It was an amazing KO too. Louis jab was still good and he would have given a lot of heavy weight trouble. I think that win is under rated.

**JAB5239** · 07-21-2011, 08:31 AM

Originally posted by Sugarj

Agreed, Louis looked old and short of zip when facing Ezzard Charles a year or so earlier. He didn't look terrible early on against Rocky, but he was clearly far from being the fighter he once was.

I fear that it was the second Charles fight where Rocky had his nose split though. The first fight went to decision......great fight!

Whoops, my mistake. I should have double checked before posting that. Thanks!

**TheGreatA** · 07-21-2011, 09:15 AM

It wasn't a win over the Joe Louis, the Louis of the late 1930s and early 1940s, but it is a credible win. Louis's right hand had lost its power, but his left jab was still potent. Marciano said it felt like a hammer. Louis could outbox a lot of contenders still but a young Marciano was a horrible match-up for an aging fighter. Louis was competitive early, but his legs betrayed him late under the relentless pressure of Rocky.

If you think Marciano beats a prime Louis based on this performance, you're badly mistaken though. Louis had none of the speed, the combinations or the counter-punching, he was surviving with his left jab alone.

**GJC** · 07-21-2011, 09:15 AM

Louis wasnt the force he was for sure but I would equate him more with Ali v Spinks rather than Ali v Holmes if you get my meaning? Not totally shot but a shadow of what he was, a still dangerous shadow though. Bivins has been mentioned but he was a good 5 years past best too.

**TheGreatA** · 07-21-2011, 09:19 AM

Originally posted by GJC

Louis wasnt the force he was for sure but I would equate him more with Ali v Spinks rather than Ali v Holmes if you get my meaning? Not totally shot but a shadow of what he was, a still dangerous shadow though. Bivins has been mentioned but he was a good 5 years past best too.

As was Lee Savold probably despite the high ranking.

Is marciano's win over Joe Louis underrated?