Sometimes I Wonder Why Did Roy Ever Waste His Time Fighting Fighters Like.....

[Toney616]

Didn't you say he was slipping after Harmon? Or did that stop?

He slipped from the Harding fight to the Harmon fight. In truth it can't really be classed as a 'slip' due to the fact that he was on steroids in the Harding fight and off them in the Harmon fight. He was still a top fighter after that as he showed against Woods and Ruiz.

How can you act as if you know how long they roided? Because one got caught more times he therefore used less? Alrighty.

No, because Toney was stacking (taking a combination of roids) which is a definite no, no for drug users. If you stack the roids stay in your system for much longer, its the reason why Vargas got caught. No knowledgable long time user would make the mistake of stacking.

Who knows? Maybe if Jones had as many fights as Toney he may have got caught twice. And all others caught once.

Can't see how the number of fights are relevant here. Either you know how to beat the system or you dont, Shane Mosley comes to mind.

I'd like to say May 14th but I don't remember. I do remember the date being moved up and it stands out because it's the only time I ever remember something like that happening. In fact, Freddie Roach blamed the positive test on the fight moving up, saying Toney was using it for an injury and they thought it would be out of his system by then.

The drug has a half life of 10 days, you have got to be pretty inept to get caught with it in your system

On April 30, 2005, he defeated John Ruiz by a unanimous decision in a 12-round match for the World Boxing Association (WBA) heavyweight Championship. However, as of May 18, 2005, it was reported that Toney failed his post-fight drug test, testing positive for the anabolic steroid stanozolol.[2] This led to the New York Athletic Commission changing the bout's official outcome to a "no-contest", deducting the win from Toney's career record and banning him from boxing for 90 days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Toney

[Toney616]

Wait...did you say Bernard Hopkins had to sign a deal with King in order to get into the tourney and fight Felix Trinidad?

DiBella and Hopkins joined forces as advisor and fighter on a handshake agreement in early 2000, two months after "The Executioner" received $100,000 for defending his IBF middleweight title against Antwun Echols. With DiBella's support, Hopkins made $525,000 for a May 2000 defense against Syd Vanderpool and $650,000 for a December 2000 rematch against Echols. Then, in 2001, DiBella engineered Hopkins's entry into Don King's middleweight championship tournament. For that bit of business, Hopkins received $1,000,000 for fighting Keith Holmes, $2,750,000 for fighting Felix Trinidad, $50,000 in expenses for each fight, and a $200,000 signing bonus. In sum, before DiBella, Hopkins was an extremely talented fighter with limited name recognition who rarely made big money. With DiBella in his camp, he became a star.

But once Hopkins beat Trinidad, he figured he didn't need DiBella anymore. So he dumped him. If Hopkins had simply said, "Lou did a good job, but I don't want to work with him in the future," DiBella would have been hurt and angry, but there wouldn't have been a lawsuit. However, Hopkins went further. In late December 2001, stung by media criticism that he was an ingrate, he gave an interview to internet writer Steve Kim in which he accused DiBella of demanding and receiving a $50,000 bribe to put him on HBO at a time when DiBella was still employed by HBO.

But it didn't stick. DiBella testified that he had asked Hopkins to support him in his negotiations with King; nothing more. And Bernard had possessed the leverage to do that successfully if he'd chosen to exercise it. In fact, on December 20, 2001 (the day after the Kim interview), Hopkins had renegotiated his own contract with King to increase the minimum purses to which he would be entitled for certain fights by roughly $1,000,000 per fight and gotten King to give him a $225,000 Bentley as part of the bargain.

http://www.secondsout.com/columns/th...lla-v-hopkins1

[Toney616]

If you can find a quote where I said Benn ducked Jones than this would make sense. I'm not. I'm arguing that Jones didn't duck Benn.

You can't have it both ways

Your posts I believe:

Benn was offered the fight in 1996. He turned it down. I think he even admitted he did but I'd have to look it up. I don't blame him though. By then, Benn was a spent force.

Given that Jones had already flattened one of the guys who had beaten him - there was no point whatsoever, actually. But no, at the time Jones offered them the fights, Benn hadn't gone on his long streak yet.

According to HBO - not Jones - he was offered the fight.

[IMDAZED]

Even Don King is willing to compromise if he knows he can make money. As I said before he was willing to work something out with Toney to make the Jackson fight happen. As for Jones the options never stopped him from fighting Ruiz and Tito. Also the options is just one of Jones's multiple stories for why the fight didnt happen.

Benn had a time machine?

So now you're argument has moved from "he wouldn't ask for options" to "it didn't stop him now, why did it before."

Benn was a Frank Warren fighter who give King options to co-promote three of his fights. Benn has not a bad word to say about King or Warren. In fact he praises them both in his autobiography. Jones has no more credibility than Warren here

Agreed. Nevertheless, I'm not basing my line of thinking on what Roy or Warren says. Just King's history.

[IMDAZED]

You can't have it both ways

Your posts I believe:

I guess where you're from, turning down automatically means ducking. I don't think like you do.

[IMDAZED]

He slipped from the Harding fight to the Harmon fight. In truth it can't really be classed as a 'slip' due to the fact that he was on steroids in the Harding fight and off them in the Harmon fight. He was still a top fighter after that as he showed against Woods and Ruiz.

No, because Toney was stacking (taking a combination of roids) which is a definite no, no for drug users. If you stack the roids stay in your system for much longer, its the reason why Vargas got caught. No knowledgable long time user would make the mistake of stacking.

Can't see how the number of fights are relevant here. Either you know how to beat the system or you dont, Shane Mosley comes to mind.

The drug has a half life of 10 days, you have got to be pretty inept to get caught with it in your system

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Toney

You don't know how long Toney was juicing. And whether it was once or not. Just stop.

[SplitSecond]

He slipped from the Harding fight to the Harmon fight. In truth it can't really be classed as a 'slip' due to the fact that he was on steroids in the Harding fight and off them in the Harmon fight.

it's a fact?

[IMDAZED]

http://www.secondsout.com/columns/th...lla-v-hopkins1

Yeah, we get all that. Hopkins had to sign a contract with King in order to get in the tourney. As YOU said. With Lou DiBella as his advisor.

[IMDAZED]

it's a fact?

He definitely was caught roiding. Whether that led to him slipping is another story seeing as how it was covered up and unknown for years. I don't doubt it could have been a factor though. You never know with fighters.

[Toney616]

So now you're argument has moved from "he wouldn't ask for options" to "it didn't stop him now, why did it before."

If the options reason was the real reason, then Jones wouldn't have to keep changing his story.