1 Billion: Kid Cocoa, the greatest "Journeyman" of all time?

[IronDanHamza]

The most similar record would be Fritzie Zivic, though he shouldn't really be classed as journeyman since he was champion and he beat better fighters.

Zivic does staggeringly have over 60 loss's but in way no way shape or form can he be classed as a journeyman.

The man's a HOF'er.

[NChristo]

The most similar record would be Fritzie Zivic, though he shouldn't really be classed as journeyman since he was champion and he beat better fighters.

Beat me too it, was going to say Fritzie Zivic and Kid Azteca although I think Azteca is a few good quality win off being above Cocoa.

Gaspar Ortega maybe ?. Don't know.

[NChristo]

Zivic does staggeringly have over 60 loss's but in way no way shape or form can he be classed as a journeyman.

The man's a HOF'er.

As is Cocoa or at least clearly should be, was ashamed that he didn't get in last time round.

Baby Arizmendi could be in discussion.

[IronDanHamza]

As is Cocoa or at least clearly should be, was ashamed that he didn't get in last time round.

Offically, he isn't. Yet.

Atleast by the IBHOF's standards.

I doubt he ever will be either.

But anyway, Ortega is a good shout considering he has an obvious great win over Gavilan and good wins over Paret etc but I still don't think that equals beating Eddie Booker and Williams 8 times.

Zivic I think is greater than Cocoa but I wouldn't class him a 'Journeyman' (with the inverted comma's) considering what the achieved.

Then again, look what Cocoa achieved. Although it was only 2 fighters.

[NChristo]

Offically, he isn't. Yet.

Atleast by the IBHOF's standards.

I doubt he ever will be either.

But anyway, Ortega is a good shout considering he has an obvious great win over Gavilan and good wins over Paret etc but I still don't think that equals beating Eddie Booker and Williams 8 times.

Zivic I think is greater than Cocoa but I wouldn't class him a 'Journeyman' (with the inverted comma's) considering what the achieved.

Then again, look what Cocoa achieved. Although it was only 2 fighters.

When Springs released ''Watch Mah Smoke'' it looks like he started a campaign to help get Cocoa in, with a shove he should get in next time a round I hope.

I know Zivic shouldn't class as a Journey man, was just comparing their record because of how close their W/L were together.

[IronDanHamza]

Baby Arizmendi is a very good shout and one that slipped my mind actually! Although he is in the HOF also.

I wouldn't class Arismendi as a 'journeyman' so to speak but he atleast was close to one in terms of the greater fighters.

He didn't have loss's to weaker fighters to the extent Cocoa did but I guess it still counts.

I think Baby may well be atleast on Cocoa's level in terms of who he lost to.

Then we have to consider that he beat;

Armstrong x2
Freddie Miller

And draws with Angott and Ambers

Loss's to the likes of Canzoneri, Armstrong, Ambers etc

Which I would say is again atleast almost as strong as Cocoa's.

Very good shout with that one.

But again, he also is in the HOF unlike Cocoa, yet.

[IronDanHamza]

Chalky Wright was a name I expected to come up, Not in the HOF I don't think . A fighter I have a great respect for.

His loss's may compare to Cocoa's considering the 4 Pep loss's which is the game changer in that sense IMO.

Along with obviously Armstrong and Miller.

I would say though, that not a single one of his wins equals Cocoa's win over Booker.

Let alone his 8 wins over Williams.

Also, Cocoa beat Wright.

[NChristo]

Chalky Wright was a name I expected to come up, Not in the HOF I don't think . A fighter I have a great respect for.

His loss's may compare to Cocoa's considering the 4 Pep loss's which is the game changer in that sense IMO.

Along with obviously Armstrong and Miller.

I would say though, that not a single one of his wins equals Cocoa's win over Booker.

Let alone his 8 wins over Williams.

Also, Cocoa beat Wright.

I actually put Chalky's name next to Arizmendi but then got rid of it when I remembered he was once Featherweight Champ and yeah he's in both HOF.

[IronDanHamza]

I actually put Chalky's name next to Arizmendi but then got rid of it when I remembered he was once Featherweight Champ and yeah he's in both HOF.

Oh, is he? That one slipped my mind also.

Too many fighters like that to remember which one's are and aren't in the HOF.

Wow, I think Kid Cocoa most definitely deserves to be in the HOF over Chalkey Wright.

I mean, I have a great respect for Chalkey Wright but I'm not all sure he is HOF worthy, do you?

Atleast, if he is, Cocoa most definitely is.

I'm going to edit the OP and specify that it's fighters who aren't in the HOF only to argue are a more accomplished 'journeyman' than Cocoa

[RubenSonny]

Chalky Wright actually lost an MD to Cocoa kid

Tiger Jones also fits the bill with much less fights than others mentioned though.