1 Billion: Most under and overated fighters in history

[Terry A]

To be fair though Langford was Middleweight fighting Heavies while Wills was a full-fledged Heavy. Head to head, Wills was by and large in his prime when the two fought while Langford was past it.

Poet

I still think that had they met in their respective primes, Wills would still have beaten Langford.

You brought up my exact point about Sam being a fearless middleweight who willingly went in against full fledged heavyweights. Yet, Jack Johnson is always given so much credit for beating Sam langford. That's always been one of my biggest beefs with Johnson. He gets so much cred from beating guys that he towered over.

[StarshipTrooper]

I still think that had they met in their respective primes, Wills would still have beaten Langford.

You brought up my exact point about Sam being a fearless middleweight who willingly went in against full fledged heavyweights. Yet, Jack Johnson is always given so much credit for beating Sam langford. That's always been one of my biggest beefs with Johnson. He gets so much cred from beating guys that he towered over.

And yet despite being a past-prime blind in one eye Middleweight Langford still KOed Wills twice. And during his prime Langford fought on pretty even terms with Sam McVea and Joe Jeanette who were more his contemporaries than Wills was: Both of whom are said to be equally as good as Wills. It really didn't matter if you WERE a Heavyweight: Langford had a great chance of smoking your azz regardless. Which, of course, shows that weight isn't as big an advantage as people make it out to be. Confusious say: "It not size of dog in fight but size of fight in dog"

Poet

[Great John L]

Overrated: Mike Tyson
Underrated: Ezzard Charles?

[JAB5239]

Under-rated.....SBleeder beat me to it. Gilberto Roman for sure. Also Gene Tunney, Ezzard Charles & Larry Holmes at heavyweight. Each followed a great champion (Dempsey, Louis & Ali) and for whatever reason, these three guys never seem to get as high a ranking as I think they should. Especially Tunney.

Tunney was a great fighter but his resume a heavyweight is to thin to rank him inside the top 15. If he had stuck around another 2 years and beat Sharkey and Schmeling his all time stick would have soared in my opinion.

Harry Wills. All we ever hear about is Sam langford this & Sam Langford that. Harry Wills beat Sam langford 13-14 times yet some rate Langford over Wills

Wills had Langfords number but Sam was past his best for many of their fights and 6 years older, plus blind in his left eye after the first Fulton fight. While I wouldn't rank Harry above Sam I do agree he is under rated.

[Greatest1942]

Wills had Langfords number but Sam was past his best for many of their fights and 6 years older, plus blind in his left eye after the first Fulton fight. While I wouldn't rank Harry above Sam I do agree he is under rated.

Right ...

But to me from what I have read no one is as under rated as Holman Williams...Charley Burley gets a lot of attention..but this guy was ducked too al lot...Eddie Futch held Williams in the highest regard. And I do respect Eddie's opinion. Still Holman is relatively less known.

[JAB5239]

Right ...

But to me from what I have read no one is as under rated as Holman Williams...Charley Burley gets a lot of attention..but this guy was ducked too al lot...Eddie Futch held Williams in the highest regard. And I do respect Eddie's opinion. Still Holman is relatively less known.

Williams is under rated as are many of the black murderers row.

[Greatest1942]

Williams is under rated as are many of the black murderers row.

Yes...a lot of the black murderers row were underrated. Still we hear a lot about Burley. Some guys are showing interest in him, which is great. I picked Holman because of the compliments he picked from his fellow boxers.

Eddie Futch called Williams (along with Burley) "the two greatest fighters [he] ever had the privalidge to see box" and said of Holman that he would "rather see him shadowbox than watch most other fighters in action". Eddie Futch did not give compliments easily.

He said again "Holman Williams was a great boxer, but he never got the recongnition because he wasn't a punhcer. He had the finesse of Ray Robinson but no punch." The reason Williams was a weak hitter wasn't to do with a lack of strength or technique, but brittle hands. By all accounts, he excelled in the art of uppercutting - where he could hit an opponent at such an angle where his metacarpals were not aligned in the same way and weren't bashing together. Even with these kind of praise , which no one except Burley got (even from teh black murderers row ) he is almost forgotten.

Williams beat some all time great fighters (Marshall, Booker, Burley, Cocoa Kid amongst them). If Zale fought Holman, I believe Williams would have come out the winner.

[Daddy T]

Overrated - Lennox Lewis, (What prime ATG did he beat?)

both Klits (by some) - have made a career of beating nobodies no top wins over ATGs on either record biggest fighter on either CV is lewis and that was a loss.

Joe Calzaghe - Struggled against a past it Eubank - struggled against B rater Robin Reed - beat a long line of nobodies - beat up hype job Lacey - edged out kessler who is okay (okay is the most accurate description) - struggled against Hopkins - beat some pensioner claiming to be Roy Jones ... No wins v prime ATG imo and avoided the best in their primes.

Underrated - Tommy Loughrane, nobody ever mentions Tommy yet he schooled both Max Baer and a young Jim Braddock - had no punch but was the consummate boxer ... lost to the ambling alp but only because Carnea was allowed to practically wrestle the far far smaller tommy)

Larry Holmes - Long long reign very dominant great skills

Michael Spinks -perhaps not underrated by proper fans but to the casual he is only remembered as the guy that Tyson smashed and not the guy who ruled one of the toughest light heavy divisions ever and moved up to beat (hey thats what the judges said) the proper linear awesome (48-0 at the time) heavyweight champ

[JAB5239]

Overrated - Lennox Lewis, (What prime ATG did he beat?)

both Klits (by some) - have made a career of beating nobodies no top wins over ATGs on either record biggest fighter on either CV is lewis and that was a loss.

Joe Calzaghe - Struggled against a past it Eubank - struggled against B rater Robin Reed - beat a long line of nobodies - beat up hype job Lacey - edged out kessler who is okay (okay is the most accurate description) - struggled against Hopkins - beat some pensioner claiming to be Roy Jones ... No wins v prime ATG imo and avoided the best in their primes.

Underrated - Tommy Loughrane, nobody ever mentions Tommy yet he schooled both Max Baer and a young Jim Braddock - had no punch but was the consummate boxer ... lost to the ambling alp but only because Carnea was allowed to practically wrestle the far far smaller tommy)

Larry Holmes - Long long reign very dominant great skills

Michael Spinks -perhaps not underrated by proper fans but to the casual he is only remembered as the guy that Tyson smashed and not the guy who ruled one of the toughest light heavy divisions ever and moved up to beat (hey thats what the judges said) the proper linear awesome (48-0 at the time) heavyweight champ

What prime all time great did Johnson, Dempsey, Marciano or Holmes beat? Losses on both Dempsey and Johnson's records can be construed as worse than those suffered and avenged by Lewis. Nobody seems to like to talk about Johnson's loss to Hart, or Dempsey's several losses to Willie Meehan, a guy who started his career at flyweight and was a fat heavyweight when Jack fought him. You see, this can be done with several great fighters. Lewis on the other hand is amongst the very few who beat every man he ever faced. Im not trying to blow him up, but if we're ask questions of fighters lets ask the questions for every fighter!

[Daddy T]

What prime all time great did Johnson, Dempsey, Marciano or Holmes beat? Losses on both Dempsey and Johnson's records can be construed as worse than those suffered and avenged by Lewis. Nobody seems to like to talk about Johnson's loss to Hart, or Dempsey's several losses to Willie Meehan, a guy who started his career at flyweight and was a fat heavyweight when Jack fought him. You see, this can be done with several great fighters. Lewis on the other hand is amongst the very few who beat every man he ever faced. Im not trying to blow him up, but if we're ask questions of fighters lets ask the questions for every fighter!

i agree but I find that lots of people over here at least (maybe across the atlantic its different) regard Lewis as top 5 or 6 while hardly having holmes in their top twenty I'd have them ranked very close together and certainly think that Holmes is underrated compared to lewis - Lewis lost to guys he shouldn't have lost to in his prime Holmes didn't.