1 Billion: Most under and overated fighters in history

[IronDanHamza]

Overrated: Julio Cesar Chavez, L.Lewis, V.Klitschko, Oscar De La Hoya.

I bolded the last 3 because I think them being active/recently active plays a big factor to be fair.

Underrated: Harold Johnson, Holman Williams, Eddie Booker.

Only started having a proper look at Williams resume and its simply outstanding.

Exceptional choices on your underrated list.

I think those kind of names are much more underrated than the likes of Lamotta, Fitzsimmons, Walker and Charles, who are underrated in their own right. But, the average fan atleast knows their name. The majority of fans don't even know who those listed names are.

Great choice with Holman Williams also. Anyone who beats; Burley x2, Marshall x2, Moore, and Eddie Booker and are hardly known is just criminally underrated.

I think it's more to do with the fact he has an insane amount of loss's and the amount of times he was strangely beaten by weaker foes. But what he did do, was astonishing. Let's not forget the man's level of competition in general, which might even stretch to be one of the most impressive I have ever seen. Which is a bold statment. I'm glad he is finally in the HOF and it is long long overdue.

Eddie Booker on the other hand, a great fighter, but the least great out of your choices in my opinion. He doesn't have the loss's that Williams has but he also doesn't have the quality that Williams has. Atleast not extended quality. Surely, worth HOF though. I don't believe he has been inducted, has he?

[StarshipTrooper]

Overrated - Sugar Ray Leonard, Stanley Ketchel(by some.)

Underrated - Mickey Walker, Ezzard Charles, Bob Fitzsimmons.

I agree with your underrateds but not sure how Ray Leonard and Stanley Ketchal are overrated. Hardly anyone knows Ketchel outside a few of us history scholars and Ray Leonard, in his pre-retina issues prime, was everything people say he was. Maybe his comeback circuses (and the fact that he was basically a pr1ck) were off-putting nicht wahr?

Poet

[RubenSonny]

Exceptional choices on your underrated list.

I think those kind of names are much more underrated than the likes of Lamotta, Fitzsimmons, Walker and Charles, who are underrated in their own right. But, the average fan atleast knows their name. The majority of fans don't even know who those listed names are.

Great choice with Holman Williams also. Anyone who beats; Burley x2, Marshall x2, Moore, and Eddie Booker and are hardly known is just criminally underrated.

I think it's more to do with the fact he has an insane amount of loss's and the amount of times he was strangely beaten by weaker foes. But what he did do, was astonishing. Let's not forget the man's level of competition in general, which might even stretch to be one of the most impressive I have ever seen. Which is a bold statment. I'm glad he is finally in the HOF and it is long long overdue.

Eddie Booker on the other hand, a great fighter, but the least great out of your choices in my opinion. He doesn't have the loss's that Williams has but he also doesn't have the quality that Williams has. Atleast not extended quality. Surely, worth HOF though. I don't believe he has been inducted, has he?

You make good points.

I wouldn't say his losses are particularly strange a whole lot of it was when he was past prime, he was already considered past it by the close of the war (around the Cerdan/Lamotta fights). He has a few losses in his prime to lesser fighters but I think that can be chalked up to fighting very regularly against tough competition. Also he was only ever stopped 3 times with 2 by near-prime ATGs in Burley and Moore and the last by Basora when both fighters were shot. I think I should add Cocoa kid to the list as well, who got the better of a series with Williams, going 8-3-2. Probably the rest of the black murderers row too. Booker isn't in the HOF, he did stop Moore and outpoint Williams while being partially blind, I'd say that those 2 are huge achievements.

[IronDanHamza]

You make good points.

I wouldn't say his losses are particularly strange whole lot it was when he was past prime, he was already considered past it by the close of the war (around the Cerdan/Lamotta fights). He has a few losses in his prime to lesser fighters but I think that can be chalked up to fighting very regularly against tough competition. Also he was only ever stopped by 3 times with 2 by near-prime ATGs Burley and Moore and the last by Basora when both fighters were shot. I think I should add Cocoa kid to the list as well, who got the better of a series with Williams, going 8-3-2. Probably the rest of the black murderers row too. Booker isn't in the HOF, he did stop Moore and outpoint Williams while being partially blind, I'd say that those 2 are huge achievements.

Wow, I was about to do a thread on Cocoa Kid. I mean, literally just about to but I thought I would come in here first seeing you had replied.

I agree with the rest of your post and I tried to green you but I have to pass it around first.

[RubenSonny]

Wow, I was about to do a thread on Cocoa Kid. I mean, literally just about to but I thought I would come in here first seeing you had replied.

I agree with the rest of your post and I tried to green you but I have to pass it around first.

Make the thread...

On a side note, I'm really Williams is really creeping up my rankings.

[SCtrojansbaby]

Overrated - Pernell Whitaker is a joke lets look at his top 4 "wins"
Chavez - wasn't a win even though Pernell had a built in advantage with the weight
Ramirez - lol lost the first fight didn't beat him until Ramirez was clearly past his prime
Oscar - Pernell got clearly beat
Nelson - Isn't a lightweight never was of course that is where Pernell beat him but hey at least he actually won the fight unlike the other 3



Underrated - Marco Antonio Barrera 2nd best Mexican fighter of all time but is rarely acknowledged as such. He has one of the great resumes of the past 40 years with wins over Morales x2 Tapia Hamed Ayala Mckinney Kelley Juarez etc

[Scott9945]

I agree with your underrateds but not sure how Ray Leonard and Stanley Ketchal are overrated. Hardly anyone knows Ketchel outside a few of us history scholars and Ray Leonard, in his pre-retina issues prime, was everything people say he was. Maybe his comeback circuses (and the fact that he was basically a pr1ck) were off-putting nicht wahr?

Poet

I'm also a little confused about Ketchell. He had an outstanding record for someone killed in his best years, yet when the ATG middles are mentioned he is almost always behind SRR, Monzon, Hagler, Greb, etc.

[IronDanHamza]

You're ******ed go away :jerk0ff9:

Is he a ****** or is he a masterful troll?

I'm starting to believe that he can't honestly believe what he says and his whole stay on this website is to wind people up saying outrageous things.

I mean, it has to be.

[Terry A]

Under-rated.....SBleeder beat me to it. Gilberto Roman for sure. Also Gene Tunney, Ezzard Charles & Larry Holmes at heavyweight. Each followed a great champion (Dempsey, Louis & Ali) and for whatever reason, these three guys never seem to get as high a ranking as I think they should. Especially Tunney.

Carlos Zarate seems under-rated. He really won that fight against Pintor & had a tremendous record until Gomez blasted him.

Charlie Burley is under-rated.

Harry Wills. All we ever hear about is Sam langford this & Sam Langford that. Harry Wills beat Sam langford 13-14 times yet some rate Langford over Wills.

But in order, my top 5 picks would be Gene Tunney, Harry Wills, Gilberto Roman, Larry Holmes & Ezzard Charles

Over-rated- Bob Fitzsimmons at heavyweight (check out his record as a heavyweight), Jack Johnson & Sam Langford, in that order. As I mentioned above, Harry Wills had the far superior record compared to Langford, but much like Johnson, someone once said that Langford was great and that's been "polly-parroted" till today.

[StarshipTrooper]

Harry Wills. All we ever hear about is Sam langford this & Sam Langford that. Harry Wills beat Sam langford 13-14 times yet some rate Langford over Wills.

As I mentioned above, Harry Wills had the far superior record compared to Langford, but much like Johnson, someone once said that Langford was great and that's been "polly-parroted" till today.

To be fair though Langford was Middleweight fighting Heavies while Wills was a full-fledged Heavy. Head to head, Wills was by and large in his prime when the two fought while Langford was past it.

Poet