The Top 30 Heavyweight Boxers Ever

[Devroy Jones]

Johnson and Dempsey are both way too high in my opinion. they didnt beat the best fighters available to them during their reign.

Im especially surprised that Johnson is so high on your list, while Wills is so low...Wills beat many of Johnson's best wins, and when they were more in their prime(Langford, Jeanette, McVea).

I would have Holyfield and Lewis a bit higher, personally.

Jack Johnson is shunned by many boxing fans today, but I truly believe the guy had an incredible amount of skill. Lets have a look at his CV and then continue our argument.......

The guys he beat - Sam McVey, Peter Jackson, Joe Jeanette, Bob Fitzsimmons, Tommy Burns, Jim Jeffries, Stanley Ketchel, Jim Flynn, Frank Moran, Sandy Ferguson, and so on.

Now, the guy aint exactly large when we compare him with today's fighters; but back then, he was a real terror. He had the best defensive skills ever (observed by Nat Fleischer), he had outstanding stamina and was a master at glove-blocking/parrying (which is attributed to the defensive part, I guess). Nevertheless he was the best boxer of his era and he fought in a time when racism and the KKK were prevalent. he fought all odds and beat Jeffries in the first-ever FOTC. And another point worth noting is he fought at a time when the combatants had to last an incredible amount of rounds, and if one didn't KO the other it would be ruled a Draw or even a No Contest. So people should not judge him by his record (which at 73 wins 13 losses and 10 draws is stll impressive).
As for Wills, I have nothing against the Black Panther, but I still think he is outclassed by Johnson in every department. Just think about it, why does no renowned Boxing writer ever include him in the Top 10?

[bklynboy]

Jack Johnson is shunned by many boxing fans today, but I truly believe the guy had an incredible amount of skill. Lets have a look at his CV and then continue our argument.......

The guys he beat - Sam McVey, Peter Jackson, Joe Jeanette, Bob Fitzsimmons, Tommy Burns, Jim Jeffries, Stanley Ketchel, Jim Flynn, Frank Moran, Sandy Ferguson, and so on.

Now, the guy aint exactly large when we compare him with today's fighters; but back then, he was a real terror. He had the best defensive skills ever (observed by Nat Fleischer), he had outstanding stamina and was a master at glove-blocking/parrying (which is attributed to the defensive part, I guess). Nevertheless he was the best boxer of his era and he fought in a time when racism and the KKK were prevalent. he fought all odds and beat Jeffries in the first-ever FOTC. And another point worth noting is he fought at a time when the combatants had to last an incredible amount of rounds, and if one didn't KO the other it would be ruled a Draw or even a No Contest. So people should not judge him by his record (which at 73 wins 13 losses and 10 draws is stll impressive).
As for Wills, I have nothing against the Black Panther, but I still think he is outclassed by Johnson in every department. Just think about it, why does no renowned Boxing writer ever include him in the Top 10?

The major strike against Wills is that he never had the belt. He fought Langford an insane amount of times and "won" newspaper decisions in most. I put won in quotes because I've read that quite a few of the decisions were not legitimate. I don't know if it's true or not.

[JAB5239]

The major strike against Wills is that he never had the belt. He fought Langford an insane amount of times and "won" newspaper decisions in most. I put won in quotes because I've read that quite a few of the decisions were not legitimate. I don't know if it's true or not.

Can't blame Wills for not having a belt, he was avoided for years by Dempsey while being the number one contender.

Will went 6-2 against Langford with 14 no decisions where he was given the newspaper decision in most. At that time Langford was half blind though and not the same fighter he once was. Not to detract from Wills wins because Sam was still one of the best heavyweights in the world.

[JAB5239]

My criteria is something like 65% Head To Head Matchups and 35% Career Statistics.
On an other note - I have no problem with Joe Louis toppling Ali, but you gotta get Lennox out of the top 10 man.
I can also see your argument coming, You ask if i base my list on the criteria above then how can lennox not be worthy of the fifth position? I have my answer ready, Lennox's competition was not exactly crap, but the guy had no better competition than Marciano(which was pretty weak). But then again, you are entitled to your opinion.

I gotta disagree about LL's comp. It wasn't Ali like comp, but I'd rate it better than Rocky's, Holmes, and Liston. His championship wins are more impressive than Dempsey's, Liston's, Tyson's and Johnsons in my opinion. But these are just my opinions.

I disagree with your 65% h2h criteria because you can never be sure of an outcome and there is always a reasonable logic another great fighter could win a fantasy match up. They're fun, but not an accurate description of accomplishment and greatness. Like you though I agree we're both entitled to our opinions.

[Scott9945]

Vitali's greatest fight was probably the one with Lennox Lewis and he lost that. Lennox said he was not 100% for that fight. That may or may not be true, but that aint the question. The fact is Vitali gave his best but still could not beat a post-prime Lewis. So, Vitali does not feature in my top 30 list.

Wladimir on the other hand is IMO too young to be judged. The crop of opponents he faces are mediocre at best and as i said I base my list 65% on Head to Head matchups. I don't think Wladimir Klitschko's good enough to dispace #30 on the list - Jerry Quarry.

You really think that Jerry Quarry would have beaten Wladimir Klitschko? Believe me, Quarry's face would look like a tomato that fell off a roof after 3 or 4 rounds.

[Devroy Jones]

Can't blame Wills for not having a belt, he was avoided for years by Dempsey while being the number one contender.

Will went 6-2 against Langford with 14 no decisions where he was given the newspaper decision in most. At that time Langford was half blind though and not the same fighter he once was. Not to detract from Wills wins because Sam was still one of the best heavyweights in the world.

I've always wondered why Jack Dempsey ducked black fighters.Was it because of the beating he took at the hands of Johnson which, to the day he died, he maintained that he had "never been hurt so bad". I mean he turned down the chance to fight Sam Langford, Harry Willis, McVey and not to mention he travelled all the way to New York to fight a "Joe Bonds" only to find out it was actually Joe Jeanette and then refused to fight him. After he mauled Willard he then refused to fight "any negro challenger". So did Dempsey duck the black fighters outright? I can understand refusing to fight Langford, Willies & McVey considering he'd been pro for only two years as well as the fact he sensed that John Reisler was only trying to set up a mismatch. He ducked Jeanette because he thought he'd lose and ruin his Heavyweight title shot and then after becoming champion he just outright refused "any negro" a shot at the title.

I believe Dempsey ducked the black fighters because he knew he'd get defeated and didn't want to lose his title or his chance at a title to a black man.
Dempsey is still one of my favourite fighters, but ducking black fighters is downright inexcusable. I know all champions back then, save Tommy Burns ducked black fighters but I kinda expected better of Dempsey.

[Devroy Jones]

You really think that Jerry Quarry would have beaten Wladimir Klitschko? Believe me, Quarry's face would look like a tomato that fell off a roof after 3 or 4 rounds.

Are You referring to the fact that Jerry Quarry was prone to cuts? Thats just nonsensical. Rocky Marciano too was prone to cuts, but he still managed to win all his matches and didn't lose a single one in spite of facing near TKO due to his cuts. Believe me, Jerry Quarry will pummel Klitschko into submission. My best bet Quarry wins by Rd.11 KO

[bklynboy]

Are You referring to the fact that Jerry Quarry was prone to cuts? Thats just nonsensical. Rocky Marciano too was prone to cuts, but he still managed to win all his matches and didn't lose a single one in spite of facing near TKO due to his cuts. Believe me, Jerry Quarry will pummel Klitschko into submission. My best bet Quarry wins by Rd.11 KO

I think that Quarry would be better than any fighter Wladimir has fought and just behind Lennox Lewis for Vitaly.

That doesn't mean that Quarry would win - I think it would be a very good fight. Quarry would be able to do what Arreola couldn't, and that is bob and weave under the jabs and pummel the body. Quarry would be a real test - namely are the Ks great or only great in comparison to second-rate opponents.

This is one of the reasons I'm looking forward to the Haye fight. I don't rate Haye highly but he's the only one out there.

[Joeyzagz]

Criteria


* Punching Power
* Wins over Quality opponents
* Quality of Era
* Dominance
* Accomplishment



1. Lennox Lewis
2. Max Schmelling
3. Joe Louis
4. Bob Fitzsimmons
5. George Foreman
6. John L Sullivan
7. Max Baer
8. Sonny Liston
9. Mike Tyson
10. Vitali Klitschko
11. Muhammad Ali
12. Harry Wills
13. Gene Tunney
14. Rocky Marciano
15. Jack Dempsey
16. Rid**** Bowe
17. Joe Frazier
18. Larry Holmes
19. Jack Johnson
20. Samuel Langford
21. Gentleman Jim Corbett
22. Evander Holyfield
23. Jim Jeffries
24. Oliver Mccall
25. Earnie Shavers
26. David Tua
27. Young Stribling
28. Tommy Morrison
29. Paddy Ryan
30. Frank Bruno

[Scott9945]

Are You referring to the fact that Jerry Quarry was prone to cuts? Thats just nonsensical. Rocky Marciano too was prone to cuts, but he still managed to win all his matches and didn't lose a single one in spite of facing near TKO due to his cuts. Believe me, Jerry Quarry will pummel Klitschko into submission. My best bet Quarry wins by Rd.11 KO

No, I'm saying this because Quarry would be eating a steading diet of hard left jabs and thumping straight rights. Whether he was prone to cuts or not, his face would take a terrible beating. I've seen both men fight live many times, and have no doubt about my prediction. Quarry would face both a style and a severe physical mismatch.