My Personal Prediction of Ali vs. Louis

[butterfly1964]

ali's left jab could get into any fighter. if it could hit the always moving frazier, it would definitely hit louis!

[nehiyaw]

Remember Louis was knocked out early in his career (Schmeling), and befuddled and outboxed (even staggered)by a small man in Billy Conn. While I seriuosly doubt Ali would've KO'ed Louis early, I see him winning over Louis by decision, over a brutal and exciting fifteen rounds. Louis will have his moments, but overall, it would make for one of the best fights of any era.

This would be similar to an Ali/Norton fight, except this would be a prime Ali, who wouldn't be flat-footed.

[Southpaw Stinger]

Ali by late KO or UD.

[hellfire508]

I just copy and paste my same response for this matchup, I'm sick of writing it:

The same points are always raised when this matchup is brought up. "Ali is vulnerable to the left hook". "Louis could be outboxed". Lets look at the styles.

The night Max Schmelling beat Joe Louis - he executed a perfectly thought-out plan. When had a tendancy to drop his left hand - after a jab, preparing for a left hook and after he threw the right. Jack Johnson pointed out this flaw to the Schmelling camp, and Schmelling nailed Louis with counter-right hands all night, before KOing him. Following this fight - Louis corrected the flaw, though at times did still make this mistake.

Ali was always vulnerable to the left hook because of his pull-back, hands low style. Unlike Louis, Ali had the speed to get away with holding his hands low. His evasiveness prevented him from taking severe beating that a normal man would take. He was dropped by left hooks from Banks, Cooper and Frazier. Louis wasn't prime for SChemlling - just like Ali wasn't prime for Cooper and Banks. And was past it for Frazier.

Now - Joe Louis was infact outboxed by Billy Conn for 12 rounds. Conn - a great light-heavyweight, who stood 6"1 and a mere 72 inch reach, weighed in at 174 for the fight. He was soundly outpointing Louis until Conn was put down hard, and out. Muhammad Ali was faster than heavyweight Billy Conn, and stood 6"3, 83" reach and weighed in the vicinity of 210 pounds. Conn did not have a reputation for a solid chin, Ali did. Ali could take bombs. If Ali used the ring - like the Terrell and Williams Ali, and used his reach and height advantage, he could do what Conn did - but better. Ali didn't invent the stick and move, but he was a master at it. He took it to another level though. He punched while moving - not just jabs, but right hands, hooks. He stung while he floated.

The Walcott fight - first one - was past Louis' prime. However, Walcott deserved the nod over the 15 rounds. Louis was down twice, and outboxed. Joe Louis was vulnerable to a mover with a solid jab. Yet the fighters who troubled him with this - couldn't stay away, or couldn't take the blows from Louis. Remebering Walcott was no star at that stage of his career. He had lost 1/4 of his fights. Though he did have wins over Elmer Ray and Joey Maxim. Again, Walcott was 6"0, and a 74" reach. The bigger, faster and granite chinned Ali could succeed where Conn and Walcott failed.

Onto Ali, he was primarily troubled by come-forward fighters who applied pressure, and jab a good jab. Ken Norton was the primary troubler for Ali - although, if you watch all three Norton bouts, you will see it was the flat-footed version that was troubled. Ali up on his toes bewildered Norton. Thus the non-stop dancing Ali from the 60s would most likely dominate Norton. Spinks - though well past Ali's prime, used pressure and a jab to beat Ali. Frazier, used pressure and a hook. Ali never faced anyone with the combination of power and combinations that Louis had. Foreman had more power, but nobody had combinations like Joe Louis. But the thing about Ali is - as he put it - "he hit me once and I'm gonna be gone". Ali in his prime was never hit by more than one - maybe two - punches at a time. He would get tagged, and move straight out of there.

It is always said, "Louis would break Ali down with the combinations. Hook, right, hook." Truth be told, I can see Louis landing a fair few left hooks. But his combinations would not be a factor in this fight. Ali would not allow himself to be cornered by Joe. PLus, Joe didn't apply the pressure that was required to crowd Ali - and trouble him. Louis applied subtle pressure, though he moved forward very slowly - almost plodding.

Ali could NOT rope-a-dope Joe Louis. That is suicide. He would be torn apart, and the referee would stop the fight. He was almost as powerful as Foreman, but alot more accurate and conservative - and didn't telegraph his punches. Ali would be TKO'd if he used rope-a-dope. However, prime Ali never did use it - so its not really an issue.

The way I see the fight going - Ali utilizes the ring, jabbing Louis, keeping him at bay. He flurries several times every round, moxing up his combinations. It's when this happens that Louis will strike - landing a few left hooks. I can see Ali maybe going down once, depending on how cautious he would be. If you are in the ring with Joe Louis - you are gonna be cautious. Ali would pick up the pace in the mid-rounds, as Louis starts to tire - not because of stamina - but because of the constant landing jabs. The fight would be stopped by the referee in the 14th round, with Louis unable to continue.

[Heckler]

I dont think Louis had the ability to cut off a prime Ali. He was very stationary, and although whatever movement he did use was good, the kind of old style shuffling Louis used wouldn't get Ali on the ropes often. People note that Louis would block Ali's jab, in Ali's younger days he would fire that jab whilst laterally moving and from weird angles. I dont think Norton would be able to handle his jab as efficently against a 67' Ali, Louis might block the first jab, but Ali threw them in rapid sucession from really odd angles and im certain with his superior speed and timing he'd catch Joe with a few. In his younger days he had many flaws, but his sheer speed, timing, and judgement made up for this. Ali loved throwing right-crosses, that would be brutally effective against Louis. Louis would get Ali on the ropes occasionally and give him a good beating, but it wouldn't be enough and i think Ali would stop him in the later rounds as a result of the accumlative effect his flurries would have. After a tough fight Ali stops him in 10.

[butterfly1964]

louis gets in power from fighting in close. ali is not an in-fighter. if ali fights louis like he fought doug jones, then ali would be ko'd in the middle rounds. if ali fought louis like he fought sonny liston, he would stop louis in the 8th or 9th. ali would take louis seriously, so he would fight louis like he did liston, and win.

[QueensburyRules]

[[[Ali's attitude coming into this fight was totally different from his previous bouts where he had shown nothing but contempt for the abilities of his opponents, on the contrary Ali had nothing but respect for Joe Louis.]]]
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In his prime Ali was very disrespectful to his opponents. He'd probably name Joe "Ol' Black Joe", "The Brown Tommer", or some other ridiculous name. There was a lot of tension between the two even when Joe was an old man.

I'd have to favor Ali prime to prime, but Joe had a good left hook and might dump Ali with it and then finish him off. Louis proved to have the better overall career and started it stronger than did Ali and finished stronger than Ali.

- -Any fighter worth anything would have to respect Ali natural talent, but as you noted, Joe started stronger and finished stronger in spite of having more bouts, so it's hard not to favor Joe in this.

[CodeBreaker]

Prime Muhammad Ali finds a way to win.

[bridgeman]

Ali would win this fight.

[them_apples]

in a big high stakes fight I think Ali takes over past round 5. couple early feeling out rounds where Louis might tag him, but Ali is hard to put away let alone hit flush. Ali starts taking advantage of Louis with right hands over the top and wins via decision.

Louis was fast and had great technical skill, but he would excel more so against someone who fought him. Louis would be too patient and lose a lot of rounds in the process.

You can't really use Doug Jones or Cooper as examples, because a lot of that was Ali just not respecting them. Same goes for Louis vs schmeling, schmeling was a pretty good fighter but Louis was cleaning up everyone and didn't really take him seriously.