Ali vs. Louis- Tale Of The Tape (Comparisons)

[Imira]

Take Tommy Farr, he had a style just like Ali's, But Louis was not in any trouble in loseing his crown, and sail to a easy points victory in 15 rounds.

Hold on there, Greek. After watching this fight 4 more times, I'll have to say Farr's style was vastly different from Ali's. Farr shuffled around and applied pressure from behind his jab, then moved in to land his bigger punches from a crouch. I would say he was much more like Frazier.

Ali stayed outside and waited for his opponent to come to him in order to sting him with counterpunches and combinations. Ali rarely did any noticable leading until he had his opponent retreating. Farr, on the other hand, did most of the leading in his fights and seldom ever waited for his opponent to lead.

The thing about Farr that troubled Louis was his crowding, handspeed and head movement. Farr was not a dancer. Louis didn't fight well when he was crowded. Godoy and Farr were two of his more troubling opponents because they both took away his punching distance. Especially Godoy. But saying Farr fought like Ali is way off base.

Against Conn, Louis faced off against a dancer who darted in, fired off a volley and got the heck out of there before Louis could set himself to respond. Stick and move at its purest. Had it not been for bodyshots during the infighting, Louis probably would never had landed anything appreciable during the fight. Pastor was similar in that he was a fleet-footed fighter who liked to dance around the ring which made it difficult for "Shuffling Joe" to get into proper punching range.

[Dempsey1238]

well Farr was not slugging it out with Louis in that 15 round fight, it seem they were Farr was jabbing at Louis, and both keeping there distant, it became more of a jabbing fight, and not relly a action pack brawl.

Farr did not dance like Ali, as he stood flat footed during the fight. But he used movement.

[Imira]

well Farr was not slugging it out with Louis in that 15 round fight, it seem they were Farr was jabbing at Louis, and both keeping there distant, it became more of a jabbing fight, and not relly a action pack brawl.

I never said they were slugging it out, but Farr was bringing the fight to Louis using head movement and his jab to apply pressure. Ali did not fight this way. Not even remotely.

Farr did not dance like Ali, as he stood flat footed during the fight. But he used movement.

Right, but his fighting style was not predicated on movement. Foot work is not the reason Farr gave Louis trouble throughout the fight. This is my point.

[Tha Greatest]

Are you guys kidding me...?

Who here actually thinks Ali can beat Louis...
NEVER...

I don't care what Ali it is...

1959, 1964, 1969, 1975, 2005, etc.

Ali had LOTS of flaws, but made up for it with natural talents like his reflex's, footwork, and handspeed...

Joe Louis was the greatest puncher to ever put on a pair of gloves. His punches were so accurate, he had a beautiful jab, beautiful left hook and a bombing straight right...and devastating body shots...

ooo...and he had the quick, short, precise shots that would knock ANYBODY out...

He had a killer jab...Like Kid Achilles said, Norton exposed Ali as did so many other people...

Ali don't got **** on Louis..
I don't see Ali winning this fight, I see it being one sided actually, Joe Louis would expose Ali of all his flaws...

and knock him out...I don't see this fight going past 8...

[hellfire508]

Are you guys kidding me...?

Who here actually thinks Ali can beat Louis...
NEVER...

I don't care what Ali it is...

1959, 1964, 1969, 1975, 2005, etc.

Ali had LOTS of flaws, but made up for it with natural talents like his reflex's, footwork, and handspeed...

Joe Louis was the greatest puncher to ever put on a pair of gloves. His punches were so accurate, he had a beautiful jab, beautiful left hook and a bombing straight right...and devastating body shots...

ooo...and he had the quick, short, precise shots that would knock ANYBODY out...

He had a killer jab...Like Kid Achilles said, Norton exposed Ali as did so many other people...

Ali don't got **** on Louis..
I don't see Ali winning this fight, I see it being one sided actually, Joe Louis would expose Ali of all his flaws...

and knock him out...I don't see this fight going past 8...

Louis dropped his left after throwing a straight right, and a jab. Yes even AFTER the Schemlling annihalation, Louis still did it. Look at Ali against Foreman, landing straight right leads. Ali would nail Louis with them all night, and then stay away. Louis was basically a very slow moving fighter, and could not catch and corner Ali like Frazier and Norton did. That's what their pressure did, something Louis lacked.

And I think Louis' normal advantage in handspeed - that he usually had - would not be the case here. Ali would beat Louis to the punch, and get out - not allowing Louis to land his combinations.

And what is this rubbish about Norton "exposing" Ali?
a) Ali was past his prime. Much like Charles exposed Louis yes? Primes comes at different times - Ali was 31, Louis was 36 - but power is the last thing to go, reflexes and speed are the first.

b) Ali had a broken jaw in the first fight, and couldn't fight his normal fight.

c) When Ali performed like he did in his prime - ala dancing and moving - he totally outclassed Norton.

d) Ali arguably lost the third fight - maybe - but he was shot, and everyone knows it.

"Ali don't got **** on Louis" - Speed, reflexes, chin, size.
Both were laser accurate, Louis had better power. Both had excellent combinations.

"and he had the quick, short, precise shots that would knock ANYBODY out..." ---- So why does he have 14 decisions on his record? If guys like Bob Pastor can go the distance, then I think the fleet-footed, evasive master, granite chinned Ali could too. The question is - can Louis go the distance? . Of course he can.

[butterfly1964]

Louis dropped his left after throwing a straight right, and a jab. Yes even AFTER the Schemlling annihalation, Louis still did it. Look at Ali against Foreman, landing straight right leads. Ali would nail Louis with them all night, and then stay away. Louis was basically a very slow moving fighter, and could not catch and corner Ali like Frazier and Norton did. That's what their pressure did, something Louis lacked.

And I think Louis' normal advantage in handspeed - that he usually had - would not be the case here. Ali would beat Louis to the punch, and get out - not allowing Louis to land his combinations.

And what is this rubbish about Norton "exposing" Ali?
a) Ali was past his prime. Much like Charles exposed Louis yes? Primes comes at different times - Ali was 31, Louis was 36 - but power is the last thing to go, reflexes and speed are the first.

b) Ali had a broken jaw in the first fight, and couldn't fight his normal fight.

c) When Ali performed like he did in his prime - ala dancing and moving - he totally outclassed Norton.

d) Ali arguably lost the third fight - maybe - but he was shot, and everyone knows it.

"Ali don't got **** on Louis" - Speed, reflexes, chin, size.
Both were laser accurate, Louis had better power. Both had excellent combinations.

"and he had the quick, short, precise shots that would knock ANYBODY out..." ---- So why does he have 14 decisions on his record? If guys like Bob Pastor can go the distance, then I think the fleet-footed, evasive master, granite chinned Ali could too. The question is - can Louis go the distance? . Of course he can.

nice post.

[butterfly1964]

Are you guys kidding me...?

Who here actually thinks Ali can beat Louis...
NEVER...

I don't care what Ali it is...

1959, 1964, 1969, 1975, 2005, etc.

Ali had LOTS of flaws, but made up for it with natural talents like his reflex's, footwork, and handspeed...

Joe Louis was the greatest puncher to ever put on a pair of gloves. His punches were so accurate, he had a beautiful jab, beautiful left hook and a bombing straight right...and devastating body shots...

ooo...and he had the quick, short, precise shots that would knock ANYBODY out...

He had a killer jab...Like Kid Achilles said, Norton exposed Ali as did so many other people...

Ali don't got **** on Louis..
I don't see Ali winning this fight, I see it being one sided actually, Joe Louis would expose Ali of all his flaws...

and knock him out...I don't see this fight going past 8...

don't make me laugh. muhammad ali is not buddy baer, jack sharkey, max schmeling, or abe simon. louis never in his entire career fought somebody as half as good as ali. ali would embarass him like johnson did jeffries. ali embarrassed liston, who IMO had practically the same handspeed as louis and way more punching power, and the few punches liston did hit him with did not faze clay. ali is bigger, physically stronger, way faster, and more accurate. louis has better defense, but with ali's speed, it doesn't matter. ali stops him in 6, period.

[Skydog]

don't make me laugh. muhammad ali is not buddy baer, jack sharkey, max schmeling, or abe simon. louis never in his entire career fought somebody as half as good as ali. ali would embarass him like johnson did jeffries. ali embarrassed liston, who IMO had practically the same handspeed as louis and way more punching power, and the few punches liston did hit him with did not faze clay. ali is bigger, physically stronger, way faster, and more accurate. louis has better defense, but with ali's speed, it doesn't matter. ali stops him in 6, period.

Liston looked like **** that fight. You know it. I know it.

Ali more accurate than Louis? Hell, the only punches Louis missed were the ones he threw when his opponents were heading to the canvas.

Liston has the same handspeed as Louis? I think you will find that proven wrong in the second Schmeling fight, the Roper fight, and the second Simon fight.

[Skydog]

Although Louis could KO Ali, and Ali could KO Louis.

If these 2 fought, it would be a lot like Ali-Frazier. Louis wins the first, Ali wins the last 2.

[butterfly1964]

Liston looked like **** that fight. You know it. I know it.

Ali more accurate than Louis? Hell, the only punches Louis missed were the ones he threw when his opponents were heading to the canvas.

Liston has the same handspeed as Louis? I think you will find that proven wrong in the second Schmeling fight, the Roper fight, and the second Simon fight.

ali is at least as accurate if not more accurate. watch ali-terrel, ali-patterson I, ali-williams, ali-chuvalo I, etc. almost all the punches he threw were right on the button.

watch both liston-patterson fights, especially the second, where even patterson's bobbing and weaving could'nt make liston miss with his precision power punches. it takes alot of speed to hit patterson that many times, and less speed to hit simon, who just stands right there flatfooted ready for you to hit him.