Manny Pacqiuao a Top 25 all time great??

[jrosales13]

A scoring error about the KDs in the 1st round is what prevented him getting a decison over JMM. The Judge admitted to this mistake afterwards.

Well you can also say a ref error is what prevented JMM to get the win. Since Pac HIT JMM while he was down(3rd knockdown). The ref should have taken 2 points away from Pac or even DQ'd him.

MAB was still a top fighter in that weight class. He was coming of a disputed loss to JMM.

No he was not, lets not forget how MAB looked against Juarez.

Guzman fight could not be made due to Golden Boy/Top rank contractual dispute.

Really? around the same time when the Guzman fight could of happened. He fought a useless rematch with MAB and fought a rematch with JMM(best fight that could have been made at the time)

Point is, that both of those fighters were with Golden boy. So lets bring a new excuse on why the Guzman fight didn't happen.

Casamayor was shot coming of a disputed win. David Diaz was a better fighter at this point in time.

A disputed win? He was coming off KO'ing Katsidis in a hell of a fight. There was nothing disputed about that win. No Diaz was not better than him at the time. Diaz had not had a win better than the Katsidis win that Casa was coming off of.

Campbell was also better than David, so was Juan.

[Barn]

Pacquiao fighting top competition across 7 weight classes requires more ability than dominating 1 weight class. If Hagler had beat Qawi or Spinks would that not be significantly better than a title defence ?


Of course but, it wasnt a title defence it was 14. Anyway Pacquiao hasn't moved up and beat someone the stature of Spinks anyway so I have no idea why you metioned him.

Does that mean Pacquiao is greater than SRR who only beat ATG's in 3 weight classes?

[IronDanHamza]

Ledwaba was the #3 guy though. Pacquiao wasnt the undisputed best at this weight but when MAB moved up he was the best fighter at that weight.

David Diaz was the WBC champion and was the 2nd best in the division. Pacquiao would of beaten Juan Diaz with ease. Taking the fight with De La Hoya was the best move legacy and financial wise. You think Golden boy would allow Diaz to fight Pac after he rejects a fight with Oscar? Juan Diaz was going to get fed to JMM.

Cotto was with Top rank and the #2 guy in the division. Its not clear cut that Mosley is the best fighter in the division given that Cotto beat him. Cotto is also a bigger draw. Who should Pacquiao fight to be considered the best at 147? Mayweather isnt interested in fighting him. He would of beaten the best fighters at WW regardless of ranking.


Pacquiao fighting top competition across 7 weight classes requires more ability than dominating 1 weight class. If Hagler had beat Qawi or Spinks would that not be significantly better than a title defence ?

Pacquiao has beaten more ATGs and HOfers than Hagler.



A scoring error about the KDs in the 1st round is what prevented him getting a decison over JMM. The Judge admitted to this mistake afterwards.

MAB was still a top fighter in that weight class. He was coming of a disputed loss to JMM.

There not paper titles, you have to consider the circumstances. Like I said before the only paper title is the one at 154.



Guzman fight could not be made due to Golden Boy/Top rank contractual dispute.

Casamayor was shot coming of a disputed win. David Diaz was a better fighter at this point in time.

So you criticise his opposition yet then say his standing wouldnt improve if he fought those guys.

His legacy like I said is built on beating top competition(top 3) across numerous weight classes. Imagine Pacquiao beat all this top 3 competition in 1 weight class. Hed be considered the GOAT at that class having beaten numerous ATGs and HOFers. You have to give credit to Pac for beating bigger opponents seen as though this is a P4P list.

When Pac was a 130lber. Did you think he could beat Hatton, Margarito, Mosley, De La Hoya and Cotto ? If you did then people would have considered you crazy.

I'm not responding to your points specifically because although you make alot of valid points which I agree with you're also refuses to see the fact that he only has 4 Lineal Titles, the rest are paper titles, and that's just a fact.

Yeah, that's very he possible that he could have beaten those fighters with ease, but the fact is he didn't. We can't give credit to someone for probably being able to beat them.

You asked who he could have fought, I gave you a list of fighters he could have fought.

The point is, Pacqiuao didn't fight 'the best' in every weight class he was in, and that's just how it is. He's still an unquestionable ATG an amazing fighter.

[Ryannn]

I'm not responding to your points specifically because although you make alot of valid points which I agree with you're also refuses to see the fact that he only has 4 Lineal Titles, the rest are paper titles, and that's just a fact.

Yeah, that's very he possible that he could have beaten those fighters with ease, but the fact is he didn't. We can't give credit to someone for probably being able to beat them.

You asked who he could have fought, I gave you a list of fighters he could have fought.

The point is, Pacqiuao didn't fight 'the best' in every weight class he was in, and that's just how it is. He's still an unquestionable ATG an amazing fighter.

you are looking at 4 lineal titles as if that's a "sub par thing".

we are judging fighters nowadays by old school standards. that way, no boxer now or in the future would ever come close to fighters from the past.

it isn't necessary just about pacquiao. the next generation of fighters will be restricted to the era they are in, and in that case will never be included as one of the greats no matter how much they accomplish. i don't know if it is the best way to go about this so called "list"

[Walt Liquor]

Ledwaba was the #3 guy though. Pacquiao wasnt the undisputed best at this weight but when MAB moved up he was the best fighter at that weight.

David Diaz was the WBC champion and was the 2nd best in the division. Pacquiao would of beaten Juan Diaz with ease. Taking the fight with De La Hoya was the best move legacy and financial wise. You think Golden boy would allow Diaz to fight Pac after he rejects a fight with Oscar? Juan Diaz was going to get fed to JMM.

Cotto was with Top rank and the #2 guy in the division. Its not clear cut that Mosley is the best fighter in the division given that Cotto beat him. Cotto is also a bigger draw. Who should Pacquiao fight to be considered the best at 147? Mayweather isnt interested in fighting him. He would of beaten the best fighters at WW regardless of ranking.



Pacquiao fighting top competition across 7 weight classes requires more ability than dominating 1 weight class. If Hagler had beat Qawi or Spinks would that not be significantly better than a title defence ?

Pacquiao has beaten more ATGs and HOfers than Hagler.



A scoring error about the KDs in the 1st round is what prevented him getting a decison over JMM. The Judge admitted to this mistake afterwards.

MAB was still a top fighter in that weight class. He was coming of a disputed loss to JMM.

There not paper titles, you have to consider the circumstances. Like I said before the only paper title is the one at 154.



Guzman fight could not be made due to Golden Boy/Top rank contractual dispute.

Casamayor was shot coming of a disputed win. David Diaz was a better fighter at this point in time.

So you criticise his opposition yet then say his standing wouldnt improve if he fought those guys.

His legacy like I said is built on beating top competition(top 3) across numerous weight classes. Imagine Pacquiao beat all this top 3 competition in 1 weight class. Hed be considered the GOAT at that class having beaten numerous ATGs and HOFers. You have to give credit to Pac for beating bigger opponents seen as though this is a P4P list.

When Pac was a 130lber. Did you think he could beat Hatton, Margarito, Mosley, De La Hoya and Cotto ? If you did then people would have considered you crazy.

wow, you sound like a floyd fan.

[$Bullsfam$]

If he were to beat Floyd and then Sergio would that put him close to a top 15 top 10 ranking? People are ****** if they think he's going to go up and beat Ward. He probably will never even fight Sergio. We'll see Cotto 2 before that fight.

But if he did beat Floyd & Sergio, thats 2 of the best fighters of the last 15 years. If not, what do you have to do to get a top 15-10 ranking these days?

[StarshipTrooper]

If not, what do you have to do to get a top 15-10 ranking these days?

The same thing you've always had to do: Prove you're better than someone who's already ranked in the top 10-15. Simple

Poet

[$Bullsfam$]

The same thing you've always had to do: Prove you're better than someone who's already ranked in the top 10-15. Simple

Poet

I'm not a big manny fan, Im more of a marquez guy myself ha, but I don't mind watching him fight because he is making history evn if he does bend some of the rules alittle ha. That's not cool but he's still doing crazy ass things. Going from 107 all the way to as far as 150 pounds.

These lists are all very crazy since you can jusitfy them in almost any order because their are like mad several people that you could say may belong in the top 10-25. He ain't retired yet and probably won't fight Sergio so at the end of the day i don't wanna get too far ahead of myself. But i think I don't think it's crazy to maybe think one day I think the boxing historians should at least have a meeting and appeal about him haha

[studentofthegam]

I really don't like giving exact rankings to guys who are still in their primes (which I think Manny is). He's an ATG for sure but too much can happen still in his career to lock down an exact place on the lists.....let's wait until he slides to past-it status before starting to ****er over where he belongs.

Poet

You are so full its a shame. I said almost the exact same thing about you in a thread about Pac. Would it have killed you to say "Yes Im bias towards older fighters"? But today hes an ATG over all but being an ATG puncher is out of the question? Hmmm. Id like to hear how its possible considering he's definitely not an ATG technician nor a defensive wiz. How is he winning?

Beating better competition trumps paper titles any day. I love Pac, he's great. But he's had the luxury of fighting in an era where there are 17 different weight classes that can provide up to 68 champions, and that doesn't include diamond belts, super champions, champions emeritus, interim champions etc., etc., etc.. When you compare that to 8 or 10 weight classes with one ONE champion in each it takes a lot of luster of those achievements.

I think conquering 8 divisions pretty much nullifies the age of extra divisions we're in. Thats unless you can name any 140lbers that he should have fought before going to WW.

Meh....Pac is my favorite active fighter. But, like Black Irish said Duran did almost the same thing started at bantamweight ended at SMW. In the span of 3 decades and had better wins than Pac.

Jimmy McClarnin started near the flyweight limit went up all the way to WW. Dominated and KO'd better fighters than what Pac has faced.

To say that Pac accomplished more than those 2 and then include Greb and Langford 2 guys who have a case just as good as SRR to being considered the GOAT of all time is quite laughable.

If he's your favorite fighter then you should give him a bit more credit. He cant fight those guys for their spot and he's beaten just about all of the most recent ATG's within each division he's touched (minus one). Even considering past ATG's there isnt one that you can say definitely beats Manny when mentally matched head to head. Lets face it he's 32-33 yrs old and coming to the end of his career so whats the hold up in tagging his career with a proper number slot. I think his career rivals anyone's past and present but its just a matter of taste.

[JK1700]

He's not a Top 25 ATG. Absolutley not.