Did Buster Douglas Really Beat Mike Tyson??

[Brassangel]

Tyson didn't fall out of his prime until after he lost to Douglas. Yes, he lost his trainer, but Tyson probably had enough experience by that point to seek a good trainer. If he didn't feel his training was sufficient, regardless of how lazy he was in preparing for the fight, he could have requested a postponement. Iron Mike was arrogant, and while he was still skilled enough without proper training to beat almost anybody, James 'Buster' Douglas was in the best shape of his lackluster career. One was lazy, the other was opportunistic. The result: Tyson got beat up, regardless of the referee's count. Even if Tyson would have had the judgment he deserved in the 8th round, people would have questioned his abilities. Chances are, Tyson still would have gone with crappy rented trainers and waterballoon cornermen.

I love Mike and all, but he got beat that night. Joe Frazier witnessed the fight and wrote about it in his exercise manual. He said, "..Tyson was the best of that era, cleaning up the mess in the heavyweight division. He could have been great. He took on several of my own fighters and made short work of them. While many feel that he got jobbed in Japan, the truth is simple; he got beat up that night. After that point, he let himself go beyond his years before it was due..."

[kapersky]

Tyson didn't fall out of his prime until after he lost to Douglas. Yes, he lost his trainer, but Tyson probably had enough experience by that point to seek a good trainer. If he didn't feel his training was sufficient, regardless of how lazy he was in preparing for the fight, he could have requested a postponement. Iron Mike was arrogant, and while he was still skilled enough without proper training to beat almost anybody, James 'Buster' Douglas was in the best shape of his lackluster career. One was lazy, the other was opportunistic. The result: Tyson got beat up, regardless of the referee's count. Even if Tyson would have had the judgment he deserved in the 8th round, people would have questioned his abilities. Chances are, Tyson still would have gone with crappy rented trainers and waterballoon cornermen.

I love Mike and all, but he got beat that night. Joe Frazier witnessed the fight and wrote about it in his exercise manual. He said, "..Tyson was the best of that era, cleaning up the mess in the heavyweight division. He could have been great. He took on several of my own fighters and made short work of them. While many feel that he got jobbed in Japan, the truth is simple; he got beat up that night. After that point, he let himself go beyond his years before it was due..."

great post, 1mil successfully donated!

[Brassangel]

Thank you. At least they weren't lottery points: 1 point a year for the next million years.

[Fight_Nightx]

For those who says Tyson was in his best condition for the fight, he was corrupted by King and all his stuff and got knocked down in sparring for the love of god. Tyson in Japan was a shadow of himself. And i dont even like Tyson i'm not a fan but thats a FACT.

[The Noose]

I havent read any other post here, but i say...

Tyson did NOT do the things he did in his other fights.

Such as giving Douglas WAY too much room to punch. Not using his jab.

Douglas was damn good.

But Tyson was pretty awful.

He forgot the little things that lead up to the big things (the KO and the win)

[Mike Tyson Jr.]

ummm not the same thing.


your just looking for excuses, hey you got one from all off his losses

long count

[leff]

long count

like i said excuses

[metaGlass]

Tyson vs. Douglas

I haven't read any of the posts, but I'll put in my two cents for the Tyson-Douglas fight. I'll admit I'm a Tyson fan, but I try to be as objective as possible.

That night Tyson got his butt kicked. Long count or no long count, if he hadn't knocked out Douglas by then, it probably would have gone to decision, and Douglas would have likely won. Douglas fought a good fight, and even Tyson has said that. Tyson was off his game that night, and for almost every night afterwards.

Now, I'll add a few words about the man Mike Tyson and his career. It's my opinion that he was one of the best boxers around. I don't care if his opposition of that time ******, the man was an extremely good boxer. To me, his biggest assets were...

- Physical Attributes: 19.75" Neck, Height/Weight ratio, Speed
- Mental Fortitude: His aggressiveness was very rough. It's one of the biggest reasons he's such a draw if you ask me. When you see Mike Tyson before and during a fight, you just KNOW that he doesn't want to stop until his opponent is lying on the canvas with a broken jaw, cut up and swollen eyes, and blood pouring out of his nose, mouth, and eyes.

Tyson was an extremely good combination puncher, finisher, and hard hitter. I even think his stamina was very good, I don't care what people say about it. It has always been a mental game with Mike, and in my opinion, he lost that way before the Douglas fight. He lost it when Cus died.

He has even said that when Cus died, he had a very strong urge to leave the sport. He didn't want to fight like a true boxer anymore, but wanted to go back to his old brawling ways. Cus was the father figure that helped Tyson grow as a person and develop as a boxer. Atlas tought him good elusive technique, and Rooney maintained everything Cus and Atlas taught him. It was Jimmy Jacobs and Rooney that helped him stay together, albeit maybe not grow. I think had Cus not passed, Tyson would be probably be going down in the history books as high as Ali.

The two biggest factors contributing to Tyson's downfall were whne A) Cus died, and B) Shake up of his management [Cayton losing the contract to Don King, Rooney be fired for siding with Cayton, Givens & Co taking further control of his professional life through personal pressure, etc].

I think the Cus Tyson would have probably shredded Holyfield and Lewis. I think the Rooney Tyson would have probably at least given them a good fight.

Anyway, done with the spiel for now

[metaGlass]

Forgot to add

For those you saying that Tyson was in his prime in the Douglas fight. It depends on how you define the word prime. Do you mean prime as in just the physical prime? If so, then yeah it's my opinion he was. If you define prime based on the person [including boxing skill, etc] as a whole, then HECK NO he wasn't in his prime.

As has been said time and again, Tyson lost his self-stated biggest asset: his elusiveness. No head movement, not nearly as much body movement, and more of a head-hunter then anything else. It was sad to see that.

I'll add one more thing: I think Tyson's chin was underrated. He took a lot of punishment in the Douglas fight. He also took a lot of punishment from Ruddock, and in the first Bruno fight he caught that hit in the first round. After the Tyson-Lewis fight, Lewis said he was impressed how much damage he absorbed.

While I'm on Lewis (Hey, I like Lewis, don't get me wrong), but Lewis said he was ready for a prime Tyson. Uhhhhh...no he wasn't. If he was ready for what he thought was a prime Tyson, then I would have put a ton of money on the prime Tyson knocking out Lewis. It wouldn't have taken him 8 rounds to knock out that hallow shell of a man if were ready for the prime version. The problem with Lewis winning against a prime tyson is that Tyson takes advantage of the power generated from forward-lunging attacks. Lewis has said before that boxing is about "hitting without being hit" (which is evident from his style and his losses to Mccall and Rahman). The problem with this is that Lewis tends to use his jab a bit, throw a couple of stronger punches (hooks or uppercuts or what have you), and then pedal backwards out of range. Tyson in his prime had a lot of elusive technique, and he was usually very forward moving. So you can see where this would go. Lewis would try to jab a few times and take a few steps back. Meanwhile, Tyson ducks those, and jumps forward clocking Lewis and breaking his jaw while he's back-pedaling.

[metaGlass]

Tyson, again (sorry )

Man, while I'm at it, I'll add another comment on another heavyweight vs. Tyson. Tyson-Holyfield.

Had Tyson worked the body like his old self, I think he would have probably won. Watch Tyson-Holyfield I and watch when Tyson nails him with a 2-punch combo to the body (hook and uppercut IIRC). Holyfield was surprised and it did hurt him. Then Tyson hit him with a right cross and started nailing Holy with uppercuts to the body. That was practically one of the only times he concentrated on the body, and look what it did to Holy.

Again, don't think I'm anti-Holy. I like Holy as well. All three fighters (Holy, Lewis, and Tyson) have different styles. Holy has one of the best, if not THE best, hearts in boxing. Tyson has amazing elusiveness, speed, power, and chin. Lewis has his height and reach advantage, he has good speed as well, and good punching power. It's just my opinion that Tyson has a lot more potential then these guys. Lewis and Holy actually worked up to their primes. Tyson didn't reach his, I don't think.