Greater Fighter, Jake LaMotta or Lennox Lewis?

[JAB5239]

i will address your answers:

1/. You have Lewis rated as No5 in your Top 10 list which you posted in the Heavyweight All Time Top 10 thread..anyone who makes any kind of reference to Lewis being stripped of belts or fighting bums or him getting poleaxed by two journeymen you are the first on their case to trash them and their quotes yet you have never once questioned Joeyzagz for his posts which tells everything about you and your idolization of Lewis.

Where I rate Lewis has nothing to do with an agenda, its an opinion. And again I will ask the question you keep avoiding while making this reference.....where have I ever pushed my opinion on where he should be rated on anyone? Quit your lying.

2/. Tua was never rated higher simply because he could not compete with the fighters 3yrs before, so when the division was at its lowest ever ebb is when Tua emerged as a top contender, Lewis knew as well as the boxing world knew that David Tua was weighing over 300lbs when Lewis decided to fight him, just like Lewis knew Mike Tyson was weighing 280lbs twelve weeks before their fight which again is one of the reasons Lewis chose to entertain him as an opponent, because Lewis has always been "an opportunist".

The bold is all that needs to be read. Everything else meaningless unless you can provide the stats of how much weight Tua had to lose before every fight.

3/. SKY Sports TV reported live`on fight night that Golota had taken a panic-attack in his dressing room and his camp had asked for a 30 minute reprieve before going into the ring, Golota was given a sedative and told,"There would be no delay".. the news was relayed back to the Lewis camp and Lewis correctly jumped on him from the opening bell.

Golota was terrified because he knew what he had coming. I would also guess that taking a sedative before a fight would be against state commission (NJ) and WBC rules yet there was nothing illegal found in his system and inquiry into this so called "sedative".

4/. Holyfield "Hammered" Mercer, knocking him down and beating him up, it was not one of Mercer's best career performances not compared to Morrison & Lewis.

Lol, Morrison was kicking his ass till his china chin was cracked! Fact is Mercer was at his best in two losing efforts. Hell, he even threw more punches than Evander. How often does that happen against Holyfield when he has "hammered" somebody?

5/. yes Holyfield was 99.9% better than the heavyweights out there in late 1999 yet was unable to fight 3 minutes of each round and was the clear winner of their rematch

Lol, a clear winner huh? So you're saying this fight was a blatant robbery? You need your eyes examined or have to learn to score a fight in a non biased manner. I thought Holy won, but it was a close fight and certainly debatable.

which puts into pers[ective how good Lennox Lewis was because he had been poleaxed twice by journeymen fighters during the 90s

You conveniently leave out circumstances, but I can guarantee will jump with them when I mention nether McCall or Rahman won a unanimous round between them in either of their rematches. Ezzard Charles was ko'd twice when he was around 34 by so called journey man, does that detract from the fighter we know he really was? Also its funny how you cry for Ruiz yet call McCall and Rahman "journeymen" though both were rated by the WBC. Nice double standard!

and had not fought any of the top fighters of that period,

Lol, another flat out lie!

so for you to rate the guy as No5 All time great Heavyweight then your judgement of this sport has to be questioned as well as your knowledge on the history of this sport because not a single boxing historian from the IBHOF or the BWAA have Lewis rated in their Top 10 Heavyweights with many of them not even having him in their Top 20... yet you rate him as No5 maybe you could take the time to start a topic and explain to all how and why you rate Lewis so highly and over so many greats of the past.

The IBRO has him twelfth and Henry Hascup voted him above LaMotta in this very thread. I can't be that far off, can I? As far as my knowledge goes....I enjoy learning from people who are open minded to ALL the facts, but I can hang in a logical debate with almost anybody.

i find your comments that what i say about Lewis to be "Pathetic" as laughable.. are you saying it is not True?

Thats exactly what Im saying. You twist thing to use them for your argument and than ignore or flat out deny this when you're called on it.

Do you think telling the truth about a fighter equates to a "Hate Agenda"?

No, I think lying and twisting the facts is a hating agenda.

you claim i only do it to disagree which is wrong, i do it to correct.

Yeah I know. Like you were trying to correct the 90/10 split and telling us nobody wanted Lewos-Bowe in 1993, right?

You claim my facts are flawed.. show me examples!

You've been shown examples on numerous occasions by myself, Scott, Joseph, Kid McCoy and other at varying times yet you simply choose to ignore.

once again you claim i have been destroyed yet the truth is once again i have won by a landslide and you know it.. show me where you think i have been destroyed?

See the poll in the other thread.

as for me my knowledge being disturbing to you, well i can understand how you feel with you having Lewis as your No5 greatest heavyweight in history.. its disturbing that i have burst your bubble, but you will get over it and i am quite positive that the next time you compile a Top 10 list Lewis will not be in it because you will have seen common sense and learned from my posts...

Im quite positive it wont because you can't teach me anything. And it isn't your knowledge I find disturbing, but your infatuation to discredit anything to do with Lewis. You are clearly not an open minded person about that subject as is evident to all but you.

at the end of your post you again suggest "playground antics" with you wanting to get a gang onto me so as to try to prove your point as being correct because you cannot prove me incorrect in any other way... so if you must go ahead with those kind of tactics then please use a "level playing field"... and make your poll only open to members who have posted more than 1000 posts in the History section and an open poll so that we can see who has posted, that way we can maybe have a little wager on the result..

I'll wager all my points right now AND my position as moderator. But Im not going to ask only people with 1000 posts to vote, I want everyone who has ever read your BS about Lewis to vote whether they think you're objective or a hater. Should I ask them for picture ID and proof of insurance to? Now I've just wagered everything I have on this site. The question is, what are you willing to wager in return? How about you never speak of Lewis again in this section?

[sonnyboyx2]

I'll wager all my points right now AND my position as moderator. But Im not going to ask only people with 1000 posts to vote, I want everyone who has ever read your BS about Lewis to vote whether they think you're objective or a hater. Should I ask them for picture ID and proof of insurance to? Now I've just wagered everything I have on this site. The question is, what are you willing to wager in return? How about you never speak of Lewis again in this section?

members who have posted 1000 times in this history section so as we then do not have the NSB crew of youngsters coming in and voting.... and the question you put to the members is this:

Question:--- Does Sonnyboy tell lies and untruths when posting on the subject of Lennox Lewis

Now either put up or get off my case because since the day i joined this forum you have had a problem with me and it is not only Lewis subjects it is almost every time i post in the section of late and i find you very objective when you should be neutral.... your response to my last post where i call you into question is hideous with you not once addressing anything which i have questioned you on, so i will ask you one last time...

q/. What have i ever posted about Lewis career which you feel is untrue or lies

[JAB5239]

members who have posted 1000 times in this history section so as we then do not have the NSB crew of youngsters coming in and voting.... and the question you put to the members is this:

Question:--- Does Sonnyboy tell lies and untruths when posting on the subject of Lennox Lewis

Now either put up or get off my case because since the day i joined this forum you have had a problem with me and it is not only Lewis subjects it is almost every time i post in the section of late and i find you very objective when you should be neutral.... your response to my last post where i call you into question is hideous with you not once addressing anything which i have questioned you on, so i will ask you one last time...

q/. What have i ever posted about Lewis career which you feel is untrue or lies

You want me to ask your question and not mine, are you joking? The question would be whether or not you are a biased hater of Lewis and anybody who has read your crap would be eligible to vote. You're refusing this because you know what the outcome would be just like the last time I challenged you and you balked.

And I already told you, if you want me off your case quit posting your bullshit or post somewhere else. I don't censor you so stop whining before I decide you're to much of an irksome little hater. Now man up or shut up!

[CarlosG815]

You want me to ask your question and not mine, are you joking? The question would be whether or not you are a biased hater of Lewis and anybody who has read your crap would be eligible to vote. You're refusing this because you know what the outcome would be just like the last time I challenged you and you balked.

And I already told you, if you want me off your case quit posting your bullshit or post somewhere else. I don't censor you so stop whining before I decide you're to much of an irksome little hater. Now man up or shut up!

Jab, I've always respected you as a poster on this forum, but in the case of Lewis you have not presented a case, as Sonny has done. You discredit everything as not credible or bias yet I have not seen you present a case as well as Sonny has done, and now you are saying "stop disagreeing with me or I will ban you because I have the power" which is immature and over the top. If this was another fighter we were talking about, and you happened to agree with Sonny and others did not, would you still pull the same action? The fact is that you love Lennox Lewis in the same way that I love Tyson and Dempsey and when somebody calls it like it is you get angry.

I disagree with a lot of people's opinion of Tyson but if I had the power, I wouldn't threaten to ban them for it.

[sonnyboyx2]

You want me to ask your question and not mine, are you joking? The question would be whether or not you are a biased hater of Lewis and anybody who has read your crap would be eligible to vote. You're refusing this because you know what the outcome would be just like the last time I challenged you and you balked.

And I already told you, if you want me off your case quit posting your bullshit or post somewhere else. I don't censor you so stop whining before I decide you're to much of an irksome little hater. Now man up or shut up!

you are wanting a "Loaded Question" and not a level playing field... i will ask you again, "What have i posted about the career of Lennox Lewis which you feel is untrue or lies"?...because to be a "Biased-Hater" like you claim i am then i must be telling untruths & lies so if you jot down the things you feel i have said which are lies the voters would then have the evidence in front of them... maybe a question asking, " Are JoeyZagz & JAB oblivious to the facts of Lennox Lewis career"... how do you think that question would be voted?

you call me a biased hater yet i think of you as" awestruck" of Lewis just like JoeyZagz... infact you even complemented JoeyZagz on his comment that George Foreman had been poisoned in Zaire... writing "Very Good Post" in response to his comments about Foreman being poisoned which is quite bazaar for someone who professes to know the history of Boxing... You need to have an open minded opinion on all boxers just like myself and if you feel the need to `correct` a members comments about a fighter then by all means do so as long as your comments are factual and true, but to try to ridicule me for mentioning certain events which happened in the career of Lennox Lewis is a little below the belt, it's as if you do not like that part of Lewis career being brought-up when he is discussed, so you attack me in person to try to prevent me mentioning those events..you need to be impartial JAB instead of angry and threatening in your response to events which happened in Lennox career and those events being mentioned in members opinion of how they feel his career unfolded.

[Joeyzagz]

Sonny likes to exaggerate heights, stretch the truth, and take the words of biased parties as gospel, but rarely does he outright lie...except on a few occasions...

if you are insinuating that i have started 11 threads on Lewis then you are wrong....

[BennyST]

Sonny's is a pretty rare form of disease, not seen often which is sad as he is otherwise a good poster. It's kind of equal to that of Daggum's for Calzaghe and Tunney's for Haye. A demented, illogical disease known by the layman as 'hate' and by the official term as 'Haterus Pugnator Illogicus'.

You can usually tell this rare form of disease quickly, most often characterised by whoever doesn't think of the fighters in question as the steaming, fat piles of no talent, glorified club fighting ****e that said afflicted people call them, instead of the normal fighters/champions that they actually are with the same general characteristics as most other fighters. It has an early onset and its pathology and etiology is usually triggered by some form of mental trauma suffered because of the fighter in question. It is an insidious disease and slowly works it way outward eventually affecting all areas of the brain and causing a separate pathology known to be a common untreatable side effect of this rare disease called 'Argumentativis Tosserus'.

Bizarre one, but highly difficult to treat. Symptoms are obvious yet the usual prescription of a dose of logic and two doses of common sense have shown no improvement. Being a chronic condition, the usual long term prescription of the daily dose of facts gets ignored as another good treatment, but while used in vintro on healthy test subjects to show marked signs of immediate improvement it has still shown no signs of such improvement with 'Haterus Pugnator Illogicus' afflicted subjects.

A fascinating observation in clinical trials has shown that the use of dot-point-facts and comparison as a form of treatment has no effect whatsoever, as the brain synapses in this particular form of disease show a remarkable ability to completely ignore and leap right past them to points that only that only the synapses in this disease can bind to and which in a non 'Haterus Pugnator Illogicus' afflicted mind can make no sense of. This is the usual treatment and works in all cases except 'Haterus Pugnator Illogicus'.

[Scott9945]

Who was it who said that Byrd/Tua was more onesided than Lewis/Tua? I'm still waiting for a follow up on that. Just saying...

[Scott9945]

Sonny's is a pretty rare form of disease, not seen often which is sad as he is otherwise a good poster. It's kind of equal to that of Daggum's for Calzaghe and Tunney's for Haye. A demented, illogical disease known by the layman as 'hate' and by the official term as 'Haterus Pugnator Illogicus'.

You can usually tell this rare form of disease quickly, most often characterised by whoever doesn't think of the fighters in question as the steaming, fat piles of no talent, glorified club fighting ****e that said afflicted people call them, instead of the normal fighters/champions that they actually are with the same general characteristics as most other fighters. It has an early onset and its pathology and etiology is usually triggered by some form of mental trauma suffered because of the fighter in question. It is an insidious disease and slowly works it way outward eventually affecting all areas of the brain and causing a separate pathology known to be a common untreatable side effect of this rare disease called 'Argumentativis Tosserus'.

Bizarre one, but highly difficult to treat. Symptoms are obvious yet the usual prescription of a dose of logic and two doses of common sense have shown no improvement. Being a chronic condition, the usual long term prescription of the daily dose of facts gets ignored as another good treatment, but while used in vintro on healthy test subjects to show marked signs of immediate improvement it has still shown no signs of such improvement with 'Haterus Pugnator Illogicus' afflicted subjects.

A fascinating observation in clinical trials has shown that the use of dot-point-facts and comparison as a form of treatment has no effect whatsoever, as the brain synapses in this particular form of disease show a remarkable ability to completely ignore and leap right past them to points that only that only the synapses in this disease can bind to and which in a non 'Haterus Pugnator Illogicus' afflicted mind can make no sense of. This is the usual treatment and works in all cases except 'Haterus Pugnator Illogicus'.

[The_Demon]

Sonny's is a pretty rare form of disease, not seen often which is sad as he is otherwise a good poster. It's kind of equal to that of Daggum's for Calzaghe and Tunney's for Haye. A demented, illogical disease known by the layman as 'hate' and by the official term as 'Haterus Pugnator Illogicus'.

You can usually tell this rare form of disease quickly, most often characterised by whoever doesn't think of the fighters in question as the steaming, fat piles of no talent, glorified club fighting ****e that said afflicted people call them, instead of the normal fighters/champions that they actually are with the same general characteristics as most other fighters. It has an early onset and its pathology and etiology is usually triggered by some form of mental trauma suffered because of the fighter in question. It is an insidious disease and slowly works it way outward eventually affecting all areas of the brain and causing a separate pathology known to be a common untreatable side effect of this rare disease called 'Argumentativis Tosserus'.

Bizarre one, but highly difficult to treat. Symptoms are obvious yet the usual prescription of a dose of logic and two doses of common sense have shown no improvement. Being a chronic condition, the usual long term prescription of the daily dose of facts gets ignored as another good treatment, but while used in vintro on healthy test subjects to show marked signs of immediate improvement it has still shown no signs of such improvement with 'Haterus Pugnator Illogicus' afflicted subjects.

A fascinating observation in clinical trials has shown that the use of dot-point-facts and comparison as a form of treatment has no effect whatsoever, as the brain synapses in this particular form of disease show a remarkable ability to completely ignore and leap right past them to points that only that only the synapses in this disease can bind to and which in a non 'Haterus Pugnator Illogicus' afflicted mind can make no sense of. This is the usual treatment and works in all cases except 'Haterus Pugnator Illogicus'.

Its strange how it only affects certain people,and it can turn half-decent posters into illogical idiots