Greater Fighter, Jake LaMotta or Lennox Lewis?

[Joeyzagz]

LaMotta's achievements are greater than Lewis achievements as is LaMotta's resume due to the fighters he beat who was "At the Top of their Game" in Robinson, Cerdan, Yarosz, Janiro, Dauthuille, Mitri as well as wins over Williams, Zivic & Satterfield.. LaMotta also took part in a "Ring Magazine Fight of the Year" and was undisputed Middleweight Champion of the World..... Lewis was a "Paper-Champion in 92 & 97" fought a draw and a hotly disputed victory for the undisputed title in 2000 then was stripped of every belt for refusing to fight the No1 contenders.. IMO LaMotta was a far greater fighter than Lewis and his achievements are greater than those of Lewis.

Robinson was not "at the top of his middleweight game" when he lost to Lamotta. He was barley welterweight limit at 144 lbs.

Lamotta may be more "popular" than Lennox Lewis due to the movie, but as far as boxing goes he is closer to Oliver Mccall than he is Lennox Lewis. Entire career based on one lucky night.

[sonnyboyx2]

Robinson was not "at the top of his middleweight game" when he lost to Lamotta. He was barley welterweight limit at 144 lbs.

Lamotta may be more "popular" than Lennox Lewis due to the movie, but as far as boxing goes he is closer to Oliver Mccall than he is Lennox Lewis. Entire career based on one lucky night.

Robinson was "At the Top of his Game" 40-0.. LaMotta's career is far from based on one night like you claim in fact he had many good nights and was a great fighter something which does not apply to Lewis who was not a "great fighter"... Lewis was an opportunist who fought guys who was on the downside of their careers and exposed fighters like Grant, Morrison, Mercer, Tua & Briggs.. as well as avoiding all the big money fights throughout the 1990s...Lewis was very fortunate to get the decision over Holyfield then abrogated his responsibilities as a champion by refusing to fight the No1 contenders so was stripped of every belt... so no matter which way you look at it or which way you want to spin it you can never overlook that fact which is a huge black mark against Lewis...When Tyson, Bowe, Moorer, Foreman & Holyfield was all finished in the game by the start of the last decade (2000) Lewis fought a draw and was "gifted" a decision which made him undisputed champion, yet his choice of opponent and his actions during the next 3yrs was appalling and unlike any other heavyweight champion in history.

[CarlosG815]

you are such a clown please get the hell out of this section.

cosign this, JoeyZags is an absolute clown and the joke of this section. Every post he makes is to testify to the greatness of Joe Calzaghe and Lennox Lewis. His hardcore devotion to two fighters who are well known to have carefully managed careers leads me to honestly believe that he is an alt that is trying to be humorous....

[Joeyzagz]

Robinson was "At the Top of his Game" 40-0.. LaMotta's career is far from based on one night like you claim in fact he had many good nights and was a great fighter something which does not apply to Lewis who was not a "great fighter"...

Congrats to Lamotta for beating a 144 lb welterweight at the top of his game.

Im just going to leave it at that, I have no interest in tearing down Lamotta to justify my pick of Lewis. Both are ATG fighters.

[Scott9945]

That is meaningless because we see the hype built up around many fights, including Pacquiao vs Margarito where many people were choosing Margarito to win. People who know boxing (or think they do, such as myself) had said that Margarito would lose every round and get destroyed. I remember my uncle calling me the night of the fight asking where I was and I told him "I'm out to dinner." "YOu're not going to come watch the fight?"

"That fight is a joke. Pacquiao is going to beat him like a punching bag. Margarito will not win a single round."

He made a case for Margarito and had bought the hype, but we all know how that fight went down. Manny dominated and won every round.

People who knew boxing at the time knew that David Tua was in no shape to be fighting anybody who wasn't a complete bum/flunk/journeyman.

I don't see how you can possible even say that Tua was at or near the top of his game. Look at the roll of fat, over roll of fat on his body and head in that fight. It is embarrassing.

And the comparisons to Pac-Margarito are meaningless to me because unlike Lewis, Pacquiao was a heavy favorite (about 6-1 compared to 3-1 for Lewis/Tua). There was just a footnote that Margarito was the biggest and strongest opponent that Pac had faced, so he had that going for him. As for the "people who knew boxing", somewhere I have a long list of fighters, trainers, etc. who picked Tyson to beat Lewis when they finally signed to fight. Of course as soon as the fight is over it suddenly became a mismatch from the word go.

Tua was the one who fans wanted to see Lewis fight. Lennox wasn't responsible for Tua showing up bloated (which he obviously was) anymore than Holyfield was to blame for Buster Douglas doing the same. Still, Tua would have beaten all but a few heavyweights that night. You can make a good case that Tua's lack of height/reach and boxing style would have been made to order for Lewis under any circumstances. So while Tua wasn't anywhere near ideal condition, he was in or very close to his prime.

[ScrotieMcBooger]

Meanwhile Lennox finds his way into nearly 90% of the heavyweight threads in this forum.just because Your not in pre-school anymore.

Mebbe cuz 99% of the posters in this forum started watching boxing while Lennox was an active fighter?

[JAB5239]

JAB.. you are wrong and your agenda of trying to make out that Lewis is a Top 5 ATG is not working mate, Lets take a look at what you claim in comparison to what i said in that McCall & Rahman was the best fighters Lewis ever fought who was at the "Top of their Game"...

Ahh yes, my agenda to make Lewis out to be a top 5 all time great. Do tell where I have pushed this so called agenda in any recent thread or stop lying please.

David Tua weighed 250lbs against Lewis and was knowhere near being at the "Top of his Game"

When was he ever rated higher?

Michael Grant was never deserving of a title fight and was exposed in his previous fight by Golota.. Grant would be destroyed by both McCall & Rahman.

Grant wasn't deserving but Ruiz was? That has got to be the funniest thing I've ever heard!

Andrew Golota was "sedated" in his dressing room after taking one of his "Panic-Attacks" which contributed to his abysmal display in the fight. his record does not stand-up against McCall or Rahman's.

He was given a cortisone shot, not a sedative. nd his destruction twice of Bowe trump ANYTHING either McCall or Rahman ever did. He proved he wasn't just lucky.

Ray Mercer was 35yrs old when he fought Lewis and had been "schooled" by 42yr old Larry Holmes as well as Jesse Ferguson whom he tried to bribe.. Mercer was years past his best and no where near being "At the Top of his Game"

Both Mercers losses to Holy and Lewis are easily his career best performances. If not, what was?

Evander Holyfield was 38yrs old and years past his best and was knowhere near to being "At the Top of his Game"

And still better than 99.9% of the heavyweights out there. Am I wrong?

Vitali Klitschko is debatable wether he is better than McCall or Rahman with Vitali beating no fighter of worth during his career other than has-beens and no hoper's with him taking retirement so as to avoid fighting his No1 contender Hasim Rahman during the 1990s.

So he wasn't in his prime and wasn't the WBC's number one contender? When had he been better?

So your comment that i have an agenda to "besmirch" Lewis is incorrect as there is more than a case that a strong case can be made that i am correct.. so you need to stop throwing out accusations at me everytime i reply to a post someone has started up on Lennox Lewis because we have been over it many many times and as you well know i have never ever been proven to lie or tell untruths when discussing Lewis, yet it seems the truth being told about him hurts those who have an agenda to glorify the guy into some kind of mythical fighter who we should all rate as greater than almost every heavyweight who ever lived, which is hideous... you always seem quick to jump onto anything i say about Lewis yet you never respond to JoeyZagz laughable comments which you and everyone else know to be incorrect and nothing other than pure unadulterated obsessive blinded worship.

Sonny,on all honesty any and all your commentary on Lewis is pathetic, your agenda of hate obvious to all. If you don't want to be called out on your bullshit than simply stop talking about Lewis. Because you only do it to disagree. You facts are flawed you twist the truth and YES you have lied. You have good knowledge, but you twist it to suit your argument while ignoring facts presented by others.Hate to break it to you bub, but you've been destroyed in almost every Lewis thread as of late and your infatuation is disturbing.

Just out of curiousity, of we started a poll asking if you were the bigger hater and myself the bigger nuthugger when it came to Lewis, who do you think would get the OVERWHELMING majority of votes?

[The_Demon]

you are such a clown please get the hell out of this section.

Zags does make himself look like a clown more often than not,but his lewis nuthuggery is an offshoot of all the hatred for lewis that some guys seem too have,so their stupid comments are just as bad

[JAB5239]

Robinson was "At the Top of his Game" 40-0.. LaMotta's career is far from based on one night like you claim in fact he had many good nights and was a great fighter something which does not apply to Lewis who was not a "great fighter"... Lewis was an opportunist who fought guys who was on the downside of their careers and exposed fighters like Grant, Morrison, Mercer, Tua & Briggs.. as well as avoiding all the big money fights throughout the 1990s...Lewis was very fortunate to get the decision over Holyfield then abrogated his responsibilities as a champion by refusing to fight the No1 contenders so was stripped of every belt... so no matter which way you look at it or which way you want to spin it you can never overlook that fact which is a huge black mark against Lewis...When Tyson, Bowe, Moorer, Foreman & Holyfield was all finished in the game by the start of the last decade (2000) Lewis fought a draw and was "gifted" a decision which made him undisputed champion, yet his choice of opponent and his actions during the next 3yrs was appalling and unlike any other heavyweight champion in history.

How about the guy in you avatar?

[sonnyboyx2]

Sonny,on all honesty any and all your commentary on Lewis is pathetic, your agenda of hate obvious to all. If you don't want to be called out on your bullshit than simply stop talking about Lewis. Because you only do it to disagree. You facts are flawed you twist the truth and YES you have lied. You have good knowledge, but you twist it to suit your argument while ignoring facts presented by others.Hate to break it to you bub, but you've been destroyed in almost every Lewis thread as of late and your infatuation is disturbing.

Just out of curiousity, of we started a poll asking if you were the bigger hater and myself the bigger nuthugger when it came to Lewis, who do you think would get the OVERWHELMING majority of votes?

i will address your answers:

1/. You have Lewis rated as No5 in your Top 10 list which you posted in the Heavyweight All Time Top 10 thread..anyone who makes any kind of reference to Lewis being stripped of belts or fighting bums or him getting poleaxed by two journeymen you are the first on their case to trash them and their quotes yet you have never once questioned Joeyzagz for his posts which tells everything about you and your idolization of Lewis.

2/. Tua was never rated higher simply because he could not compete with the fighters 3yrs before, so when the division was at its lowest ever ebb is when Tua emerged as a top contender, Lewis knew as well as the boxing world knew that David Tua was weighing over 300lbs when Lewis decided to fight him, just like Lewis knew Mike Tyson was weighing 280lbs twelve weeks before their fight which again is one of the reasons Lewis chose to entertain him as an opponent, because Lewis has always been "an opportunist".

3/. SKY Sports TV reported live`on fight night that Golota had taken a panic-attack in his dressing room and his camp had asked for a 30 minute reprieve before going into the ring, Golota was given a sedative and told,"There would be no delay".. the news was relayed back to the Lewis camp and Lewis correctly jumped on him from the opening bell.

4/. Holyfield "Hammered" Mercer, knocking him down and beating him up, it was not one of Mercer's best career performances not compared to Morrison & Lewis.

5/. yes Holyfield was 99.9% better than the heavyweights out there in late 1999 yet was unable to fight 3 minutes of each round and was the clear winner of their rematch which puts into pers[ective how good Lennox Lewis was because he had been poleaxed twice by journeymen fighters during the 90s and had not fought any of the top fighters of that period, so for you to rate the guy as No5 All time great Heavyweight then your judgement of this sport has to be questioned as well as your knowledge on the history of this sport because not a single boxing historian from the IBHOF or the BWAA have Lewis rated in their Top 10 Heavyweights with many of them not even having him in their Top 20... yet you rate him as No5 maybe you could take the time to start a topic and explain to all how and why you rate Lewis so highly and over so many greats of the past.

i find your comments that what i say about Lewis to be "Pathetic" as laughable.. are you saying it is not True?

Do you think telling the truth about a fighter equates to a "Hate Agenda"?

you claim i only do it to disagree which is wrong, i do it to correct.

You claim my facts are flawed.. show me examples!

once again you claim i have been destroyed yet the truth is once again i have won by a landslide and you know it.. show me where you think i have been destroyed?

as for me my knowledge being disturbing to you, well i can understand how you feel with you having Lewis as your No5 greatest heavyweight in history.. its disturbing that i have burst your bubble, but you will get over it and i am quite positive that the next time you compile a Top 10 list Lewis will not be in it because you will have seen common sense and learned from my posts...

at the end of your post you again suggest "playground antics" with you wanting to get a gang onto me so as to try to prove your point as being correct because you cannot prove me incorrect in any other way... so if you must go ahead with those kind of tactics then please use a "level playing field"... and make your poll only open to members who have posted more than 1000 posts in the History section and an open poll so that we can see who has posted, that way we can maybe have a little wager on the result..