Would Foreman always lose to Ali?

[Kid McCoy]

Some people had a past prime inactive Ali beating Frazier in FOTC. Not hard to imagine a Prime Ali beating Frazier.

And some people (probably a lot more in fact) thought Ali lost. Frazier won a clear decision, knocked Ali down and had him badly hurt. If they'd never fought again the same logic used here would apply and people would be on here now claiming Ali could never have beaten Frazier. A series is a better way of determining who was better.

Yes it was such a tough grueling fight that Ali knocked him out in 8 rounds.

Hagler-Hearns was a brutal fight and that only lasted 3 rounds.

Foreman came back in 1976. Ali fought Norton and Young that year. Norton went onto beat Larry Holmes according to some and Young went onto beat Foreman.

He also fought Dunn and Coopman. Were they deserving challengers? Not sure what a fighter went on to do years later proves. No one knew that at the time.

In 77 Ali fought Shavers and Evangelista both who went onto challenge Holmes. Foreman retired in 77.

Evangelista lost his previous fight to Lorenzo Zanon. That he later got another undeserved title shot against Holmes doesn't prove anything.

Ali wanted a rematch with Frazier after FOTC. Instead Frazier defended his title against journeymen Terry daniels and Ron Strander. What did they do to deserve title shots. Meanwhile Ali was fighting much superior opposition.

Which is a fair point.

George Foreman, Holmes and Lewis were all stripped of titles for refusing to fight number one contenders. Ali is the greatest of all time, he fought all the best fighters of his era.

For almost the whole of 1977 the WBC were threatening to strip Ali for not meeting his #1 contender Norton, but such was Ali's standing at the time ("bigger than boxing" in his own words) they didn't dare. They did as soon as Spinks refused to fight Norton.

From 64-75 Ali fought everyone there was to face. After that point I don't think that's the case. Imo he didn't have much interest in fighting Foreman again or a fourth Norton fight.

Foreman was out of the game from after he lost to Ali up unto 1976 with Muhammad Ali fighting Wepner & Bugner during that time, Foreman came back and fought Ron Lyle looking shyte while Ali fought Coopman, Young & Dunn within a 3 months period, Ken Norton was the official No1 contender and Ali signed to fight him while Foreman took on Jimmy Young and lost..because Foreman shouted for a fight does not mean he should be given one.. Juan Manuel Marquez, Andre Berto & Shane Mosley are all calling for a fight with Manny Pacquiao.. Bernard Hopkins has just drawn with Pascal yet he won't get an immediate rematch and Foreman did not draw with Ali, he was knocked out.

So again, why does Foreman have to earn a shot at Ali when it's apparent that other lesser fighters were getting a shot for doing bugger all?

[Miburo]

Hilarious how many people saying this was a joke fight for Ali that he walked through easily. Look at Ali's face after round one and tell me that a$$holes

[BKM-2010]

And some people (probably a lot more in fact) thought Ali lost. Frazier won a clear decision, knocked Ali down and had him badly hurt. If they'd never fought again the same logic used here would apply and people would be on here now claiming Ali could never have beaten Frazier. A series is a better way of determining who was better.



Hagler-Hearns was a brutal fight and that only lasted 3 rounds.



He also fought Dunn and Coopman. Were they deserving challengers? Not sure what a fighter went on to do years later proves. No one knew that at the time.



Evangelista lost his previous fight to Lorenzo Zanon. That he later got another undeserved title shot against Holmes doesn't prove anything.



Which is a fair point.



For almost the whole of 1977 the WBC were threatening to strip Ali for not meeting his #1 contender Norton, but such was Ali's standing at the time ("bigger than boxing" in his own words) they didn't dare. They did as soon as Spinks refused to fight Norton.

From 64-75 Ali fought everyone there was to face. After that point I don't think that's the case. Imo he didn't have much interest in fighting Foreman again or a fourth Norton fight.



So again, why does Foreman have to earn a shot at Ali when it's apparent that other lesser fighters were getting a shot for doing bugger all?

imo that's not a good comparison at all. Ali and Frazier were going back to back and it was a close fight up untill the knockdown. Ali had a lot of success against Frazier and it is really not hard at all to see Ali beating him in a rematch(if they had never fought again).

Foreman on the other hand was getting boxed silly by Ali and even when Ali layed on the ropes Foreman was missing most of his power punches and Ali rolled with a lot of landed shots as well. I really don't see any way Foreman could have beaten him. There isn't even a puncher's chance against Ali. In my mind he is the absolute worst styles matchup for Foreman.

How would Foreman ever beat Ali in a rematch? I'd like to hear.

I understand what you're saying that we can't be 100% sure since they didn't fight several times, but most discussions on this forum are hypothetical anyway.

[sonnyboyx2]

And some people (probably a lot more in fact) thought Ali lost. Frazier won a clear decision, knocked Ali down and had him badly hurt. If they'd never fought again the same logic used here would apply and people would be on here now claiming Ali could never have beaten Frazier. A series is a better way of determining who was better.



Hagler-Hearns was a brutal fight and that only lasted 3 rounds.



He also fought Dunn and Coopman. Were they deserving challengers? Not sure what a fighter went on to do years later proves. No one knew that at the time.



Evangelista lost his previous fight to Lorenzo Zanon. That he later got another undeserved title shot against Holmes doesn't prove anything.



Which is a fair point.



For almost the whole of 1977 the WBC were threatening to strip Ali for not meeting his #1 contender Norton, but such was Ali's standing at the time ("bigger than boxing" in his own words) they didn't dare. They did as soon as Spinks refused to fight Norton.

From 64-75 Ali fought everyone there was to face. After that point I don't think that's the case. Imo he didn't have much interest in fighting Foreman again or a fourth Norton fight.



So again, why does Foreman have to earn a shot at Ali when it's apparent that other lesser fighters were getting a shot for doing bugger all?

Michael Grant, Frans Botha, Hasim Rahman, Mike Tyson all spring to mind 1999-2003

[cameronpaul]

boxer beats slugger - slugger beats swarmer - swarmer beats boxer. worst possible match up for foreman was ali. but just because ali beat the greatest, doesnt make him the greatest. foreman is the greatest, its just that everyone has bad match ups. i dont think ali would last 5 rounds with prime tyson, and i dont think prime tyson lasts five rounds against foreman. the way i see it foreman would beat more of the top 100 atg than ali would and he would have higher ko %. but most of the time ail beats foreman in the ring. its just styles.

[Schmerzen]

boxer beats slugger - slugger beats swarmer - swarmer beats boxer. worst possible match up for foreman was ali. but just because ali beat the greatest, doesnt make him the greatest. foreman is the greatest, its just that everyone has bad match ups. i dont think ali would last 5 rounds with prime tyson, and i dont think prime tyson lasts five rounds against foreman. the way i see it foreman would beat more of the top 100 atg than ali would and he would have higher ko %. but most of the time ail beats foreman in the ring. its just styles.

against a prime holmes he went 10 rounds in 82, so what makes u sure a prime ali couldnt last 5 rounds versus tyson?
thats simply ridiculous, even without throwing a punch ali would go the full 15 rounds with tyson, using the cassius clay footwork

[Great John L]

I think if George Foreman had been smart and not fought like a caveman he would have beaten and chopped down any Ali from 1972-Onward. Ali didn't dance or outbox George. he just took advantage of George's frustration and less than stellar stamina to counter punch him to a KO. The immense heat was also a ncie bonus for Ali, who stayed relatively immobile while Foreman kept punching away to no avail.

[cameronpaul]

so what makes u sure a prime ali couldnt last 5 rounds versus tyson?

the guy ali most struggled to fight was frazier beacuse of the bob and weave style. a style that tyson pretty much perfected. given that i dont think ali had faught anyone as quick as tyson-or as defencivly sound- i think he would blow ali out in a few rounds, orthough in a rematch ali might be able to think his way to fighting a better fight. first time they fight i think tyson wins every time.

[Barn]

the guy ali most struggled to fight was frazier beacuse of the bob and weave style. a style that tyson pretty much perfected. given that i dont think ali had faught anyone as quick as tyson-or as defencivly sound- i think he would blow ali out in a few rounds, orthough in a rematch ali might be able to think his way to fighting a better fight. first time they fight i think tyson wins every time.

Are you kidding me? Ali had a monster chin and was never stopped and only KD once by Frazier and he got up after 4 seconds. He also fought Frazier post-exile when he was past his prime.

["The Hitman"]

the guy ali most struggled to fight was frazier beacuse of the bob and weave style. a style that tyson pretty much perfected. given that i dont think ali had faught anyone as quick as tyson-or as defencivly sound- i think he would blow ali out in a few rounds, orthough in a rematch ali might be able to think his way to fighting a better fight. first time they fight i think tyson wins every time.

I think that prime Ali definitely beats prime Tyson. Ali after prime could take all foremans shots and i know Tyson didn't just have power he had incredible speed too and the Bob and weave style, but prime Ali wouldn't be scared of Tyson like all his opponents were and Tyson never fought a fighter with the foot and hand speed of Ali. IMO Ali would win a late KO outboxing Tyson and wearing him down before pounding on and flooring Tyson late.