History today

[jjbj2]

If Froch wins more than 3 rounds I will be very very shocked.

I gotta remember this quote. I'm holding you to this statement right here.

[Scott9945]

If Froch wins more than 3 rounds I will be very very shocked.

Although I'd like to be wrong about this, I think the same thing. I'm not a fan of Ward's style, but he's been dominating his competition.

[IronDanHamza]

Dont be. He's awkward and some of these rounds will be tight, This is a FIGHT


BUT gotta back Ward too, he got proper talent

I don't think Froch is an awkward fighter to be honest.

His punches are so slow and telegraphed you can do a crossword whilst avoiding his punches with little bother.

His feet are so equally slow and his footwork is really not very good either.

He keeps his hands extremely low for someone with such poor reflexes.

His best assests are his chin and his heart, two things unquestionably excellent that he posesses. Along with decent power, bu hardly concussive.

In all honesty, I'm still suprised he has made it to the final.

Then again, I felt Dirrell beat him quite clearly and he lost a clear Decision to Kessler IMO.

The only fight where I was shocked at the outcome was Arthur Abraham. But, on the flipside, it turns out that Abraham isn't as good as alot of us thought.

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that Ward will beat Froch and in quite dominant fashion. And like I said, if Froch wins even a handful of rounds convincingly I will be very shocked.

[IronDanHamza]

I gotta remember this quote. I'm holding you to this statement right here.

By all means, If I'm wrong and Froch pulls it off in a legit manner, I will stand up and admit I was wrong and I was under estimating Froch and give him full credit.

I've been wrong before, on many occasions.

Ok, not that many.

[New England]

I don't think Froch is an awkward fighter to be honest.

His punches are so slow and telegraphed you can do a crossword whilst avoiding his punches with little bother.

His feet are so equally slow and his footwork is really not very good either.

He keeps his hands extremely low for someone with such poor reflexes.

His best assests are his chin and his heart, two things unquestionably excellent that he posesses. Along with decent power, bu hardly concussive.

In all honesty, I'm still suprised he has made it to the final.

Then again, I felt Dirrell beat him quite clearly and he lost a clear Decision to Kessler IMO.

The only fight where I was shocked at the outcome was Arthur Abraham. But, on the flipside, it turns out that Abraham isn't as good as alot of us thought.

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that Ward will beat Froch and in quite dominant fashion. And like I said, if Froch wins even a handful of rounds convincingly I will be very shocked.

i agree that ward's going to be a step or two ahead of froch all night.
he's just too fast in addition to having all his skills and experience

he can beat froch to the punch and get back to a range and angle where i think he'll make froch look a bit pedestrian
all night.


but wait... what's not awkward about froch?

he's got zero rhythm
he even jabs without rhythm. he just falls around and jackknifes that thing out there

and he's slow for a top flight fighter, yet he still fights with his hands down

he hardly throws a straight punch


he's a very good counterpuncher with a very good chin and great recuperative powers and conditioning

he's also supremely confident

but i'd call him awkward, homie
at least historically

against johnson and abraham he's toned it down a ttouch

he was all over the place against andre dirrell. just flying around the ring winging bolos

and that's the closest thing froch has seen to andre ward
pascal had the hanspeed, but he's not a boxer at angles for 12 rounds like dirrell
pascal also only has good footspeed coming in and only for a few rounds
whereas both dirrell and ward (and also taylor early in their fight to a certain degree) can move quickly laterally in addition to having quick hands.


i actually think this is a good fight to bet on because of froch's recent boxing performances and their affect on the odds of a fight i truly think he has little chance of winning

[IronDanHamza]

i agree that ward's going to be a step or two ahead of froch all night.
he's just too fast in addition to having all his skills and experience

he can beat froch to the punch and get back to a range and angle where i think he'll make froch look a bit pedestrian
all night.


but wait... what's not awkward about froch?

he's got zero rhythm
he even jabs without rhythm. he just falls around and jackknifes that thing out there

and he's slow for a top flight fighter, yet he still fights with his hands down

he hardly throws a straight punch


he's a very good counterpuncher with a very good chin and great recuperative powers and conditioning

he's also supremely confident

but i'd call him awkward, homie
at least historically

against johnson and abraham he's toned it down a ttouch

he was all over the place against andre dirrell. just flying around the ring winging bolos

and that's the closest thing froch has seen to andre ward
pascal had the hanspeed, but he's not a boxer at angles for 12 rounds like dirrell
pascal also only has good footspeed coming in and only for a few rounds
whereas both dirrell and ward (and also taylor early in their fight to a certain degree) can move quickly laterally in addition to having quick hands.


i actually think this is a good fight to bet on because of froch's recent boxing performances and their affect on the odds of a fight i truly think he has little chance of winning

He's really not a good counterpuncher. At all.

Carl Froch barely ever trys to be a counterpuncher, and when he does he really doesn't do well.

I agree with his chin and conditioning, its excellent.

He has great will to win, heart, chin, strength and decent power.

But he's really not that good.

[New England]

He's really not a good counterpuncher. At all.

Carl Froch barely ever trys to be a counterpuncher, and when he does he really doesn't do well.

I agree with his chin and conditioning, its excellent.

He has great will to win, heart, chin, strength and decent power.

But he's really not that good.

when you fight with your hands down its done for two reasons


one: speed
when you move athletically your hands will drift below your defensive position in your boxing stance
it maintains balance (victor Cayo does this, as an example. he's very athletic)


thats why you'll see hands moving when people run, pivot, step to the side / push off on one foot. its why boxing and other combat sports are the only sports you'll see people moving with their hands up and stationary

froch does not keep his hands down to help his balance and allow him to move more athletically


reason two for keeping your hands down : to get your opponent to throw. especially a low left hand. you are presenting a target to your opponent to throw his right hand, instead of asking him to think about setting up a situation where your left hand will be away from your face, and he can contour.

instead, froch is keeping his hands down to get his opponent to throw punches
he's a counterpuncher. he might not appear that way because of his lack of flash and handspeed and head movement, but that's what he's looking to do.


the only fight where froch basically took the lead from the first to the 12th was abraham, and that's only because abraham doesn't throw many punches and has virtually no jab, and froch could begin his offense so far out of range with nothing coming back that he chose to lead.

he also boxed a bit against johnson because he was able to outwork him with the longer jab

antonio tarver knows more about boxing than you or i could ever dream of. the guy knocked out friggin roy jones ^^
and he's in love with the counterpunching of froch

he pitches the old pants tent every time froch gets his swagger going and starts getting over his front foot, with his eyes open
and looking to counter

he's very cool in the pocket


and also, on the chin thing

i thinsk he's got a very good chin, certainly not a great one
he gets shaken up pretty often. he recovers very well.

[IronDanHamza]

when you fight with your hands down its done for two reasons


one: speed
when you move athletically your hands will drift below your defensive position in your boxing stance
it maintains balance (victor Cayo does this, as an example. he's very athletic)


thats why you'll see hands moving when people run, pivot, step to the side / push off on one foot. its why boxing and other combat sports are the only sports you'll see people moving with their hands up and stationary

froch does not keep his hands down to help his balance and allow him to move more athletically


reason two for keeping your hands down : to get your opponent to throw. especially a low left hand. you are presenting a target to your opponent to throw his right hand, instead of asking him to think about setting up a situation where your left hand will be away from your face, and he can contour.

instead, froch is keeping his hands down to get his opponent to throw punches
he's a counterpuncher. he might not appear that way because of his lack of flash and handspeed and head movement, but that's what he's looking to do.


the only fight where froch basically took the lead from the first to the 12th was abraham, and that's only because abraham doesn't throw many punches and has virtually no jab, and froch could begin his offense so far out of range with nothing coming back that he chose to lead.

he also boxed a bit against johnson because he was able to outwork him with the longer jab

antonio tarver knows more about boxing than you or i could ever dream of. the guy knocked out friggin roy jones ^^
and he's in love with the counterpunching of froch

he pitches the old pants tent every time froch gets his swagger going and starts getting over his front foot, with his eyes open
and looking to counter

he's very cool in the pocket


and also, on the chin thing

i thinsk he's got a very good chin, certainly not a great one
he gets shaken up pretty often. he recovers very well.

Here's the problem, Carl Froch genuinely isn't a counter puncher.

I have been watching Carl Froch for close to a decade. Antonio Tarver wasn't even aware who he was, along with most people out of the UK, until at the earliest when he fought Jermain Taylor, which was what? 2 years ago?

Antonio Tarver, along with almost everyone else who has only followed the last 2 years of his career, had fallen into the incredibley strange adopted myth that Carl Froch is a fighter with lots of skills and has suddenly become a counter puncher because he outboxed Arthur Abraham.

Whilst, the actual reality is he is not a counter puncher and his skills are dead average at best.

[Perfect Plex]

I don't think Froch is an awkward fighter to be honest.

His punches are so slow and telegraphed you can do a crossword whilst avoiding his punches with little bother.

His feet are so equally slow and his footwork is really not very good either.

He keeps his hands extremely low for someone with such poor reflexes.

His best assests are his chin and his heart, two things unquestionably excellent that he posesses. Along with decent power, bu hardly concussive.

In all honesty, I'm still suprised he has made it to the final.

Then again, I felt Dirrell beat him quite clearly and he lost a clear Decision to Kessler IMO.

The only fight where I was shocked at the outcome was Arthur Abraham. But, on the flipside, it turns out that Abraham isn't as good as alot of us thought.

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that Ward will beat Froch and in quite dominant fashion. And like I said, if Froch wins even a handful of rounds convincingly I will be very shocked.

Cound't agree more. Dirrell was robbed.

[New England]

Here's the problem, Carl Froch genuinely isn't a counter puncher.

I have been watching Carl Froch for close to a decade. Antonio Tarver wasn't even aware who he was, along with most people out of the UK, until at the earliest when he fought Jermain Taylor, which was what? 2 years ago?

Antonio Tarver, along with almost everyone else who has only followed the last 2 years of his career, had fallen into the incredibley strange adopted myth that Carl Froch is a fighter with lots of skills and has suddenly become a counter puncher because he outboxed Arthur Abraham.

Whilst, the actual reality is he is not a counter puncher and his skills are dead average at best.

we can agree to disagree. i believe froch is looking to counter, and i'm of the belief that most agree with me based not only on the way he fights, but their testimony. it's certainly not an opinion shared only by myself and mason the line dixon.
and i also think that he's a crafty fighter given his lack of world class talent.



the run froch has had from pascal to today has been the meaningful part of of his career, and the part by which he'll be remembered. my evaluation of froch, for the purposes of our discussion, are of a 2011 version heading into the andre ward fight, and it's based on his relevant and recent fights against top flight competition. he's a much better fighter today than he was when he fought pascal and taylor, and certainly he's improved since his days fighting domestically. and although i havn't been watching carl froch from birth i've certainly gone through the early portions of his pro career.

he did not play a primarily counterpunching role against abraham.
i'm not sure you read the post in its entirety because it's long (im guilty of the very same thing certainly,) but i've cited froches recent performances (especially the fight against abraham, and early in the johnson fight) as more of an attempt at boxing.
you cant "be a counterpuncher" to any real degree against abraham anyhow, as he doesn't throw punches
and early against johnson he was trying to get the jab on him to keep him away because you don't want a natural LHW like glen johnson working from your chest.


otherwise he tends to start off a bit slow, keep his left hand down, looks to bait you into throwing the jab and the right hand so he can counter. (i think ward will fight him primarily from a southpaw stance, but that's neither here nor there at this point because they havn't fought yet.)


every good fighter obviously takes breaks from strictly working off of what his opponent is doing and decides to lead for a period, or vice versa
but the abraham fight is the only fight i've seen where froch took the lead almost exclusively