Roy Jones Jr top 10 ATG...

[nachorjj]

Roy Jones is my favorite fighter, I think it's the most talented boxer in history, I know I could beat any fighter of any era in his prime.
But while he defeated great fighters like Hopkins and Toney at his best, miss you a lot of fighters fight, which layers were not as good as these two, but if I would have to be fought. eg Michael Nunn, Nigel Benn, Chris Eubank, Dariusz Michalczewski, Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis, Vassiliy Jirov, James Toney remach CW, Bernard Hopkins remach in 2000/01, Joe Calzaghe 2001/02, Frankie Liles, Tim Littles, Terry Norris, Gerald McClellan.

[NChristo]

Roy Jones is my favorite fighter, I think it's the most talented boxer in history, I know I could beat any fighter of any era in his prime.

You got a time machine ?, otherwise you can't "know".

Which is the main reason why ranking someone on skill is iffy, you should really rank them on achievements / accomplishments and who they beat, can include skill but it should not really matter as much as the others.

There isn't really any justification for putting him in the top 10 imo, even if you haven't seen a boxer as fast or as "unbeatable" as some people like too say.

[Scott9945]

Who did Jones fight instead of the fighters listed, and why did he fight the fighters that he fought? Was it their ranking, or they weren't marketable names, etc...?

Why did he duck them, and had he fought them and not the person he fought, would he be known to "duck" the other fighter?

Explain....

Roy had the luxury of a sweet HBO contract that gave him unprecedented control of his opponents and fight location. He flagrantly ducked mandatory contender Michael Nunn and never made much (if any) effort to unify with Michalczewski.

[CarlosG815]

Roy had the luxury of a sweet HBO contract that gave him unprecedented control of his opponents and fight location. He flagrantly ducked mandatory contender Michael Nunn and never made much (if any) effort to unify with Michalczewski.

So not fighting Michael Nunn is what justifies ranking Roy out of a top 10 or 20?

[StarshipTrooper]

Roy had the luxury of a sweet HBO contract that gave him unprecedented control of his opponents and fight location. He flagrantly ducked mandatory contender Michael Nunn and never made much (if any) effort to unify with Michalczewski.

Michalczewski was a joke who wouldn't fight outside of Krautland where he could get bogus decisions from the hometown judges. What Darius did would have been the equivalent of Jones only fighting in Pensacola against the local tough guys with hand-picked judges scoring the fights.

And btw, I'm half German so nobody start.

Poet

[Scott9945]

So not fighting Michael Nunn is what justifies ranking Roy out of a top 10 or 20?

When you are asking for a reason to keep someone off the ultimate elite list (top 10 P4P all time), it doesn't take much to bump him out. Nunn was just one example. Previous posts had already mentioned others so there was no need to duplicate them.

[Scott9945]

Michalczewski was a joke who wouldn't fight outside of Krautland where he could get bogus decisions from the hometown judges. What Darius did would have been the equivalent of Jones only fighting in Pensacola against the local tough guys with hand-picked judges scoring the fights.

And btw, I'm half German so nobody start.

Poet

Michalczewski was unbeaten and the lineal 175 champion. He had some impressive wins. Bogus decisions? The only fight that appeared to end in a close decision was his first loss. His fights made major money in Germany, so it would have taken a decent offer to get him to the US. And Roy could have made big money if the fight were held in Germany. But another mark against Jones was that he refused to fight outside the US, even though his title said "world champion".

As to your heritage, neither Michalczewski or Klitschko is actually German, so that point seems irrelevant.

[StarshipTrooper]

Michalczewski was unbeaten and the lineal 175 champion. He had some impressive wins. Bogus decisions? The only fight that appeared to end in a close decision was his first loss. His fights made major money in Germany, so it would have taken a decent offer to get him to the US. And Roy could have made big money if the fight were held in Germany. But another mark against Jones was that he refused to fight outside the US, even though his title said "world champion".

As to your heritage, neither Michalczewski or Klitschko is actually German, so that point seems irrelevant.

The point is I'm expecting the "he's racist against Germans" posts to start by certain parties because I consider German boxing to be the bush-leagues. "Major money in Germany" is like saying it plays well in Poughkeepsie. If Darius wanted to be big time he needed to go play in the big leagues and that means the US. Jones fight in Germany? That's like asking Ovechkin to go play junior hockey after he's been in the NHL. Jones was the big fish playing in the big pond: Michalczewski goes to him or goes to hell.

Poet

[Scott9945]

The point is I'm expecting the "he's racist against Germans" posts to start by certain parties because I consider German boxing to be the bush-leagues. "Major money in Germany" is like saying it plays well in Poughkeepsie. If Darius wanted to be big time he needed to go play in the big leagues and that means the US. Jones fight in Germany? That's like asking Ovechkin to go play junior hockey after he's been in the NHL. Jones was the big fish playing in the big pond: Michalczewski goes to him or goes to hell.

Poet

You can talk all you want about big leagues and big fish, but 9/10 times a boxer will go where the money is. Poughkeepsie doesn't pay as well as Broadway. Michalczewski was making very nice paydays in Germany, so he had little motivation to travel thousands of miles for the same or less. A world title is just as valid anywhere in the world. If the money wasn't good then he wouldn't have consistently attracted top American challengers to Germany. I put equal blame on both Jones and DM for not doing what needed to be done to get that fight made. The difference was that Jones called his own shots while DM was pretty much controlled by Universum.

While it isn't what US boxing is at the highest level, I don't consider German boxing to be bush league. (and I'm 0% German) But that is another topic for another day. Nobody is making a case for Michalczewski being in the all time top 10 anyway.

[Wild Blue Yonda]

Looking at this from another angle for a moment, lets take the discussion away from Jones. If we're evaluating whether he belongs in the top-10 all-time, it has to be said -- & this is beyond opinion, it has to be viewed as fact --- if we place any value in resume, there is absolutely no conceivable way Jones can make the cut. Call him the greatest fighter head-to-head ever if it so pleases you, but his CV is so overwhelmingly far behind dozens of all-time legends, he has to fall from grace.

Again, don't see that statement above as a mark on Jones' career, see it for how overwhelmingly fantastic the likes of Ezzard Charles, Roberto Duran, Archie Moore, Emile Griffith, & a whole host of others' careers were. They & many like them could certainly be argued to beat Jones head-to-head (speaking at my most conservative, in fact), & so factoring in their CV's being streets upon streets ahead of Jones', how could anyone realistically elevate him to the top-10 boxers ever, regardless of weight?