Who are fighters you consider *borderline* greats?

[RubenSonny]

Jose Luis Castillo - very underrated imo.

[SNVDoublePunch!]

Jose Luis Castillo - very underrated imo.

I like this call a lot.

[SCtrojansbaby]

Marquez DeLaHoya and Kostya are 100% ATG.

[XionComrade]

Personally I hate the obsession fans have with p4p. It's ok to toss it about occasionally over skittles and beer, but it seems like EVERY discussion is p4p and where does so-and-so rank. When I rank someone as an ATG I'm ranking them as an ATG in a particular weight class.

That being said, I tend to think De La Hoya and Pryor are legitimate ATG Welters. Tszyu and Calzaghe I go back and forth on whether they're ATGs or what I call "near-great" (which is what I interpret the TS's term borderline great to mean). At no worse Tszyu and Calzaghe are near-greats.

I do believe you're right regarding Cotto and Hatton. While I think Cotto may well have the talent to reach near-great status I don't believe he's done it yet. Hatton is no better than a club fighter and no where near the class of fighter Calzaghe was.

Poet

Personally I think Tszyu is a shoe in for ATG based on talent alone, maybe even the best 140lbs fighter of all time H2H. I go back and forth with Calzaghe also, I don't think he had enough great wins to justify being ranked along with the Ali, Foreman, Louis, Duran, Leonard, Tszyu, Pacquiao, etc...But watching him beat the ever living shi7 out of a prime Jeff Lacy always impressed me, as well as wins over Robin Reid and Kessler.

I think Joe Frazier is borderline, I actually think their is a stronger case to deny it to him. Not a very technically sound fighter at all, but a brave slugger.

[SNVDoublePunch!]

Personally I think Tszyu is a shoe in for ATG based on talent alone, maybe even the best 140lbs fighter of all time H2H. I go back and forth with Calzaghe also, I don't think he had enough great wins to justify being ranked along with the Ali, Foreman, Louis, Duran, Leonard, Tszyu, Pacquiao, etc...But watching him beat the ever living shi7 out of a prime Jeff Lacy always impressed me, as well as wins over Robin Reid and Kessler.

I think Joe Frazier is borderline, I actually think their is a stronger case to deny it to him. Not a very technically sound fighter at all, but a brave slugger.

Ali fought several brave sluggers. Frazier is the one who actually beat him though. I think you're way technically underrating him. It's astounding to me that anyone considers his case questionable. Astounding. Simple brave sluggery does not get you an Olympic gold medal, unification of world titles, a win over a still young Muhammad Ali and world heavyweight championship domination from 68-73...Astonishing. I can't see where you're coming from at all.

[BigStereotype]

There is no way Marquez falls short of greatness in my book. He's shoo-in material.

I'd have to agree with this overall sentiment. He's above the level of a Cotto (who I think could have been great if he wasn't fed to Margarito) or an Oscar.

[Roy Keane]

shane mosley

[jose_palooka]

SNVDoublePunch!,

First of all, I really like your avatar. It's a true classic.

Second you asked about ''borderline'' greats but most of the replies appear to deal with fighters who exceed that label.

As for me, there was one great boxer who was largely overlooked back in the 70s despite what I thought was a truly great career. That boxer who achieved what I characterize as 'borderline greatness'' was Alvaro 'Yaqui' Lopez:

http://www.thesweetscience.com/boxin...-gets-his-due/

The light heavy weight category is often overlooked among the pro ranks but his was a time when that category featured some of the best fighters that weight class ever had. He took on the best and never backed off from anyone. My boxing hero was Archie Moore who went on record as giving him the supreme compliment: The legendary Archie Moore often described Lopez as his favorite fighter of all time.

Yaqui is now in the Hall of Fame where he richly deserves to be. Tell me honestly now, how many of you ever considered him for the Hall? In my mind and in my heart, I know he belongs there because he was one of the most fearless and determined fighters of all time who gave it 100% every single fight night.

I can think of and list other borderline greats. But my list will always begin with Alvaro 'Yaqui' Lopez.

[XionComrade]

Ali fought several brave sluggers. Frazier is the one who actually beat him though. I think you're way technically underrating him. It's astounding to me that anyone considers his case questionable. Astounding. Simple brave sluggery does not get you an Olympic gold medal, unification of world titles, a win over a still young Muhammad Ali and world heavyweight championship domination from 68-73...Astonishing. I can't see where you're coming from at all.

Ali never fought any sluggers of the same type Frazier was. I book Frazier, Marciano, and Tyson all in the same book as far as swarmers/pressure fighters go. I do not consider Frazier a slugger ala Foreman/Liston/etc.

I think that Frazier's prime was simply to short to be considered any higher than Tyson, and I think that overall he was lacking as a fighter in comparison to Mike. Even at the first Ali fight and certainly in the Foreman fight, he was starting to fade. Very Badly in the Foreman fight.

He got hit ALOT. Their is no way around that, Frazier ate punches more than any of the other 3 swarmers, or even the sluggers mentioned. That is just bad all around imho. Probably contributed to his blindness and short prime quite the bit.

He had all of the guts and heart of any fight er I have ever seen. He lacked a good defense, and coupled a good offense with tremendous determination and guts to make him as dangerous as he was. The actual offense itself was something to see though.

[StarshipTrooper]

Ali never fought any sluggers of the same type Frazier was. I book Frazier, Marciano, and Tyson all in the same book as far as swarmers/pressure fighters go. I do not consider Frazier a slugger ala Foreman/Liston/etc.

I think that Frazier's prime was simply to short to be considered any higher than Tyson, and I think that overall he was lacking as a fighter in comparison to Mike. Even at the first Ali fight and certainly in the Foreman fight, he was starting to fade. Very Badly in the Foreman fight.

He got hit ALOT. Their is no way around that, Frazier ate punches more than any of the other 3 swarmers, or even the sluggers mentioned. That is just bad all around imho. Probably contributed to his blindness and short prime quite the bit.

He had all of the guts and heart of any fight er I have ever seen. He lacked a good defense, and coupled a good offense with tremendous determination and guts to make him as dangerous as he was. The actual offense itself was something to see though.

Did you consider that Frazier got hit more because he fought a consistantly better class of fighter than Marciano and Tyson did? Hell, Tyson's own in-prime trainers admitted Mike's defense was grossly overrated as it's unlikely any fighter is going to take many punches when his opponent is running for his life just trying to survive. In their words Tyson's offense WAS his defense.

Poet