Who are fighters you consider *borderline* greats?

[SNVDoublePunch!]

I'm sure most of us have a few where despite our personal opinion on whether or not they're great, we can see how someone would disagree. I've heard these guys be called borderline types: Miguel Cotto, Genaro Hernandez, Ken Norton...Who do you consider borderline?

[Wild Blue Yonda]

Oscar De La Hoya, Aaron Pryor, & Kostya Tszyu would be three candidates. All three would definitely rank among the all-timers in 140lb. history, but in a total context, I think the case could swing either way for them (in regards to being, say, top-100 all-timers).

[BennyST]

Oscar De La Hoya, Aaron Pryor, & Kostya Tszyu would be three candidates. All three would definitely rank among the all-timers in 140lb. history, but in a total context, I think the case could swing either way for them (in regards to being, say, top-100 all-timers).

These three, Joe Calzaghe etc. I think those guys are the borderline greats. Someone like Miguel Cotto I don't think deserves any mention as any type of great. Hernandez at least ruled his division for many, many years and made a million defenses with some big names with his only losses being to a couple of prime greats. Even so, he still sits just outside of being a borderline 'great' and for me a guy like Cotto simply doesn't cut it.

If the Tszyu's, Hoya's, Calzaghe's, Pryor's etc are borderline greats, the fighters like Cotto, Hatton etc etc, don't get close. They aren't near the border and won't even cross state border lines.

[SNVDoublePunch!]

Okay, just so we're clear, 1. I didn't say all-time great. Just great. As in on the border between great or very good. 2. About Cotto and Hernandez, and all these defenses. He is 12-2-1 in major world title fights across two weight classes, having not one in one of those weight classes in a title fight. Miguel is 15-2 across three weight classes, and he never lost at light welterweight. Miguel is a former Olympian, four-time titlist in three weight classes and has defeated 12 other titlists, losing to A. a man suspected of possibly having loaded his gloves (no proof for any fight but Mosley) and B. The top P4P fighter in the entire sport. The only knock on Cotto so far is he's never been a linear champion. But briefly, he was considered the man to beat at welterweight and for my money, of higher quality than linear LWW champion Hatton, Linear welterweight champions Judah and Baldomir, etc. I consider him a very good fighter, personally. I don't believe Hernandez is in a higher class on accomplishment or as a total package.

[StarshipTrooper]

These three, Joe Calzaghe etc. I think those guys are the borderline greats. Someone like Miguel Cotto I don't think deserves any mention as any type of great. Hernandez at least ruled his division for many, many years and made a million defenses with some big names with his only losses being to a couple of prime greats. Even so, he still sits just outside of being a borderline 'great' and for me a guy like Cotto simply doesn't cut it.

If the Tszyu's, Hoya's, Calzaghe's, Pryor's etc are borderline greats, the fighters like Cotto, Hatton etc etc, don't get close. They aren't near the border and won't even cross state border lines.

Personally I hate the obsession fans have with p4p. It's ok to toss it about occasionally over skittles and beer, but it seems like EVERY discussion is p4p and where does so-and-so rank. When I rank someone as an ATG I'm ranking them as an ATG in a particular weight class.

That being said, I tend to think De La Hoya and Pryor are legitimate ATG Welters. Tszyu and Calzaghe I go back and forth on whether they're ATGs or what I call "near-great" (which is what I interpret the TS's term borderline great to mean). At no worse Tszyu and Calzaghe are near-greats.

I do believe you're right regarding Cotto and Hatton. While I think Cotto may well have the talent to reach near-great status I don't believe he's done it yet. Hatton is no better than a club fighter and no where near the class of fighter Calzaghe was.

Poet

[SNVDoublePunch!]

Personally I hate the obsession fans have with p4p. It's ok to toss it about occasionally over skittles and beer, but it seems like EVERY discussion is p4p and where does so-and-so rank. When I rank someone as an ATG I'm ranking them as an ATG in a particular weight class.

That being said, I tend to think De La Hoya and Pryor are legitimate ATG Welters. Tszyu and Calzaghe I go back and forth on whether they're ATGs or what I call "near-great" (which is what I interpret the TS's term borderline great to mean). At no worse Tszyu and Calzaghe are near-greats.

I do believe you're right regarding Cotto and Hatton. While I think Cotto may well have the talent to reach near-great status I don't believe he's done it yet. Hatton is no better than a club fighter and no where near the class of fighter Calzaghe was.

Poet

I just mean right on the line where they're arguable either way to you.

[SBleeder]

Dwight Qawi, Rosendo Alvarez, Donald Curry, Miguel Canto, Ike Quartey.

[SNVDoublePunch!]

Dwight Qawi, Rosendo Alvarez, Donald Curry, Miguel Canto, Ike Quartey.

Quartey hits the nail on the head for me perfectly. Curry, I can see. Qawi and Canto I both rate as certain greats, personally. Curry was so sharp for a brief time, it's a shame that he burnt out like he seemed to have. Quartey was very fine.

[joelab75]

I would put Miguel Cotto there with Joe Calzaghe and JMM. Miguel has fought the very best Welterweight in a 2 year span from 2007-2009 he fought Judah, Mosley, Margarito, Clottey and Manny Pacquiao and is a 3x division title holder.

Joe Clazaghe could have done more in his career. fighting jones who was past his prime wouldnt make him ATG but beating Hopkins and his undefeated record make him a hall of famer.

JMM is a good counter puncher and a brawler. same as Barrera and Morales. his resume wouldnt make him ATG because he has not really fought and beat a really good fighter. yeah he had 2 close fights against Pac but it wasnt enough to get the W. some thought he won the second fight but we should all know by now JMM's best division is around 130 lbs and Manny fought him at his best weight and if he was really that good he could have won the 2nd fight by a good margin. we all know Manny's best weight is around 145 lbs.

[Wild Blue Yonda]

There is no way Marquez falls short of greatness in my book. He's shoo-in material.