The 20 Greatest Fighters Since 1985

[Jim Jeffries]

Easily. First off ....Duran had issues with speed and boxing. He quit when he faced Ray when Ray boxed him, and Ray my favorite fighter ever was not as good defensivly as Mayweather was.

Yes Hearns would destory Mayweather at 147, stylistically it is a unwinnable fight for Mayweather to fight Hearns, even Paul Williams who throws soo many punches that a much smaller fighter only has a chance if the makes it a war. This is not a Mayweather style, at least not what we have seen at 147. You have some good points about the names at welter, however he has called out Mosley many many many times, and now Mosley finally got some balls and has said he would fight him,,,but oooops he lost to Cotto. I Honestly feel that Mayweather will fight Cotto, and if he does and beats him that hs hatton, judah, Cotto, DLH, Gotti, Correles, Baldimir...etc...No one else you can name has fought a resume like that and remained unbeaten. That is why you have to rank him up there.

Does he leave a lot to be desired with his style, yes he does, but he wins! So Duran moved up and got his ass beaten repeatedly around the same age as Mayweather...leoanrd beat him, Hearns stopped him , Benetix beat him, and Hagler. it is funny that Duran fans always seem to forget the ass whippings he took all by the age of 34. Mayweather has moved up and remained unbeated, and has fought fighters as good as Benetiz. Maybe not a Hearns, or Leonard, or Hagler... But Duran lost those fights. Mosley got his beat by Forrest, Wright, and now Cotto...yes he is older but when he was younger he only beat DLH...the rest of fights were vs who?

Do you know what boxing age is? Barrera is only 33, but he is very old boxing wise because he has 69 fights. Duran already had 72 professional fights (71-1)when he beat a 24 year old, 27-0, champ in Leonard. At lightweight, Duran was a machine, he would have owned Leonard or Mayweather. Just because he kept fighting till he was 50 with 119 fights total doesn't mean that his losses later in his career meant anything. Because of the extreme number of fights he had, by 30 he was already way past his prime.

[wpink1]

Gavin...let me educate you son....In june of 1980 the Duran was so called in the best shape of his life..and moved up and beat Ray leonard by 4 points over 3 scorecards in a fight that Ray leonard chose not to utilize his greatest attributes, boxing, movement, and speed. I challenge you to point out one place in that fight where Duran "FORCED" Ray leonard to go toe to toe, or cut off the ring etc. Now that does not minimize Durans accomplishment, it simply points out that Styles makes fights, especially when you are dealing with fighters the level of a Duran, Leoanrd, Hagler etc. Ray fought the wrong style that night and barely lost.

Move forward to New Orleans 5 months later I guess he got old by then. He also has no excuse he knew the date as did Ray, and both signed the contract. it was the same Duran, that came into that fight as in June. Duran fans sit back and want to minimize every fighter that ever beat him. However, Duran always blows up between fights, this is nothing new. He blew up as a lightweight and had to get down to 135. Now he only has to get down to 147. Besides he is a professional fighter who pocketed millions of dollars. His job was to come into the fight in top shape. You dont hear anyone ever whinning about Leonard having the flu one week before the 1st fight do you. It is true he did and there was questions if the fight was going to go on as planned. No..the issue is Duran could not deal with ray when he boxed him. In rounds 5-7 of the 1st fight which Duran lost on all cards.. Leonard used a little movement and kept the fight in the middle of the ring, and easily outboxed Duran. Go look for yourself. Duran even got made that night and started Mocking Ray. Go to YOU Tube and look for yourself.

So your stament Duran was a machine....Hmmm list the great fighters he beat at Lightweight and compare them to the fighters ray beat at Welterweight. Hmmmmmm Also keep in mind Duran lost to Dejesus at Lightweight to, and was dropped in the 2nd fight too. Go on list the facts my friend.

Now as for the Mayweather Duran comparison. I have Mayweather easily beating Duran at lightweight, as you saw what happened when Duran moved up and faced a boxer, who was not as good defensivly as Mayweather was. At light weight Mayweather has more power than he does at Welterwieght, (mayweather) and more speed, and was a more aggressive fighter ( As Correles). You think other fighters may have given Duran some issues, wait till you see what he would do vs a Prime Mayweather.

Learn boxing Gavin....It is not always who is the roughest toughest. It many of times comes down to the style that the fight takes, and we see what duran does when forced ot box. He gets frusterated, and quits!

Finally for you comparison about the machine of Duran. Hmmm at lightweight he was a very very good fighter, a great fighter. However, he didnt beat great fighters at Lightweight. He beat good fighters some very good fighters, but not a Beneitz, or a Hearns.... Now lets evaluate factually Duran. He moved up at 29, no amateur career... Mayweather moved up at 28-29 a very long amateur career. Go to Box Rec... the names on Durans Resume is a joke for the most part. fighters with losing records, even after he became a champ. Alviro Rojas 3-4, Bernardo Diaz 1-4...Ezequiel Obando 0-3...and there are many many others. Now Box rec makes a disclaimer that the complete records may not always be available. Ok we have to factor that in. However the fact remains that these quality of fighters...ARE BUMS!!!!!! You let Mayweather fight hmmmmm you let Mayweather face Sergio Martinez and he would get publicly destroyed by fans all over saying he is fighting bums. Do you know who Sergio Martinez is? He is the 3rd ranked Super Welterweight champion of the world...I guarantee you that he is more highly ranked, has a better record etc...than most of the fighters that Duran faced at Lightweight and built up that record on. Go look for yourself! Yes Duran gets a lot of praise for dominating the Lightweights for the 70's and having a tremendous record there, but the quality of his wins only took a dramatic rise after he beat Ray Leoanrd, IN A FIGHT THAT RAY LEONARD CHOSE NOT TO BOX, USE MOVEMENT OR SPEED". Had ray boxed the first night, I think we have an entire different rating of Duran, at least in the top pound per pound discussions. Hell Hopkins controlled the middleweight for a long time too, but prior to his retiring he was highly criticised for not beating anyone of substance. Now he has came back and beaten Winky Wright and Tarver which helps.

Finall fact about Duran...he moves up and gets repeatedly whipped before the age of 34. Mayweather moved up and is still undefeated. No Maywether has not faced a Leonard, hearns,Hagler...So quality of fights still is on Durans side in comparison to Mayweather, but Duran lost almost all those fights, so we should not give him too much praise for moving up and losing. Tell us all what is his record vs Dejesus, Leonard, hearns, hagler, Benitez ?

Now compare leonards record vs Norris, hagler, Hearns, Benetiz, Duran, Kalule.

Now compare Mayweather record, vs Correles, DlH, Judah...and he still has some work to do...IMO before we can rank him up with a Duran pund per pound. He has to beat Hatton, Cotto (unfortunately Mosley lost)....But the fact is he has moved up just as Duran did and he has not gotten Ko'd, no losses and no excuses which is what we hear everytime Duran lost.

Not focused - Dejesus
wrong Diet- not focuse- cramps, diarreah - Leonard
No focused - hearns,
Too old - Hagler
not focused - benitez.

How about hmmm duran may not have been as dominant as everyone thinks he was when you look at the best wins at lightweight ws Dejesus, buchanon, Kobyachi, Marcel. Hmmmmm then he losses all before age of 34 these fights. And gavin if your going to give Duran a pass because you think 33 is old, the what about Roy Jones who never lost )(except for dq) before 35, or Ray leonard who came back at age 32-33 and beat hagler, or others. Give duran the same set of rules that you give others, and factor in no Amateur career, so many of the 1st 20 + fights when theere were no trainers,,,hmmmmm factor that in too.

[wpink1]

Also if your not going to look at durans fights after age 30...then what top fighters did he ever beat. He beat Leonard and we know about that fight, then you have to factor in he quit in the rematch...he lost to Dejesuse the 1st time then brually beat him the next 2. Lets see the top fighters duran beat.

Leoanrd....1-2 record
Esteban Dejesus....2-1 record - good win
Kobayashi (his record at the time 61-9-4)
Ernesto Marcil (24-2-1) who had losses to Miguel Riasoc 7-0 and Augustin Cedeno 6-11-4...Wow Marcil was great!
Ken Buchanon-Good Win
Barkly - great upset win
Moore - great upset win...very green fighter.


Now besides Leonard name one who is listed in the top 100 all time list pound per pound fighters.

Leonard beat 3-4 (depending on where you rank Benitez) in the top 40 pound per pound list that are generally accepted across biases,,etc.

So help me understand on what measurement besides he beat all these bums at Lightweight is Duran Soooo dominant!

[Jim Jeffries]

Gavin...let me educate you son.....

There appeared to be a book's worth of meaningless drivel in your post, but I quit reading after this.

[wpink1]

Gavin it appears your not educated on boxing enough to deal with it. Some people post just because the like boxing and post there opininon. which is their right and fun, some post becuz they have meaningful news and want to share...Some know boxing and post from an educated stance..then there are those that simply just get on chat rooms and through up unsubstantiated .."bandwagon " riding with the popular myth type of stuff, that brings laughter from anyone who knows boxing.

Example. ...Floyd Mayweather is a coward...Hmmm for anyone to call a boxer risking his life a coward...anyone sitting in the comfort of their home on a computer behind a firewall,,typing tuff stuff....hmmmm

Your position that Duran would have owned Leonard or Mayweather at Lightweight is respected...much respect for that opinion. I differ, as I boxed before, and I know what throwing a different style does to anyone. Leonard boxed Durans head off in the 2nd fight. I actually had Ray winning the 1st fight, just like I had Mosly wnning this past weekend. However it was Durans crowd, Durans style of fight, and Duran won the ring mental games, and the Ring Generalship, regardless of how Ray fought it was Durans style of fight, and many including "possibly" yourself gave durans rounds based on Leonard had his back to the ropes,,,,Sort of like i did Mosley vs Cotto..So I admit being on the ropes hurs and someone being active against you, gives at least the impression that the other boxer is getting the best of you, most times. If you saw Benitez vs Palimino Wow.....However, when I turn off the volume and focus on the action...I have Ray winning that fight very very close..rounds 1 I gave to Ray which none of the judges did, and round 12 was very close. If you remember one judge scored most of those rounds a draw,,,I can only concur that a lot of those rounds Duran or Ray would start off strong, then the other would come back..especially after round 7..

Btw..I think Leonard and Mayweather style would always beat Duran at anyweight, just like boxing period frusterated hagler. Duran himself made a young Hagler, a Hagler that would have destroyed duran had he tryed to fight him like he did Leonard in Montreal...Duran made hagler box, lead, and used subtle movement to make it a close fight.

Leonard could not and will not ever be able to outbox a Tommy Hearns. Hearns at welterweight is too big, fast enough, has way too much reach, and in boxing you do not want to be on the end of his right hand or left hook...Therefore the only way a Leonard could outfight Hearns is simply zap his eneryg early on, pick his spots and shots...then pour it on late.. It is funny how many people who do not know boxing get on chat rooms and say garbage with out any intelligent backing of thier position and say stuff like Hearns was whipping Ray, hearns was outboxing Ray..etc...Well DuH,,,when have you ever seen hearns outboxed? What was Ray's strategy? Have you ever seen a much short man, outbox a tall fast fighter with a great jab?

Or the best most popular false myth out, Aaron Pryor use to beat Leonard in sparring, he even knocked ray down. FAlSE. I have sparred with a fellow Jimmie Matz who was often brought in by leonards camp early on when Ray was learning how to imploy power in his shots, or had a fight vs a bigger man. Jimmie was there when Pryor and him used to spar, even when Howard Davis and Ray sparred.once. He has no reason to lie, and even Pryor "himself" said ray got the best of him. Wow the myths started from 2 interviews, one where ray was approache by Pryor and asked to fight, and ray said quote "Aaron wants to fight me, you knock not knocked as if they had already boxed and this happened, he said you knock (action verbtense meaning to describe something currently happening) me down, I knock you down. That is where the false myth of Aaron Pryor knocking ray came from. and there was a guy from Aaron camp who said Aaron would give Ray a working over. Hmmm might funny when Aaron was asked about Ray twice, once he said Ray knows me, and the other time he said Yes Ray used to get the best of me in sparring, but I got in some lumps too.

I just brought all that up, because in this debate about duran, many state he is a god, but when the qualitky of his career is tested vs a Leonard hes wins were not against better fighters, and Duran fans do two things to try to discredit Leonard and others. They say, Duran was old when he lost to leonard and others,,way past is prime..,...Hmmmm So at age 29 coming off the best showing of your career in 5 months when you get your butt handed to you, all of a sudden your old! Hmmmm. Also Duran was past his prime. I will agree he was past his most effective weight, but Duran did not have a amateur career so he did not have any wear an tear from those fights and training, Leonard, Mayweather, Dlh, and other did. Leonard had 150 amateur fights...My point is Duran was not past his prime. He may have lost focus, and was in against bigger men, that can withstand that brutal style of attack he tried,and thus he became more of a boxer hearns, benitez, hagler. and when you fight bigger men that can generally withstand your punches you have to have something else...That is for every boxer,,,Duran included. That is what happened to Duran. I agree at Lightweight he was an all time great, but IMO Mayweather especially Mayweather who is not a great as ray, but had almost equal hand and foot speed pound per pound as lightweight, had better defense and would not go toe to toe with Duran....I think he would eat Durans lunch at lightweight, and Leonard beats duran anytime he wants to if he boxes....

Gavin its not meaningless, your just dealing with someone who knows boxing, and can support it with factual information including records that show the quality of Durans Lightweight resume vs Leonards at Welter.

[BennyST]

Gavin it appears your not educated on boxing enough to deal with it. Some people post just because the like boxing and post there opininon. which is their right and fun, some post becuz they have meaningful news and want to share...Some know boxing and post from an educated stance..then there are those that simply just get on chat rooms and through up unsubstantiated .."bandwagon " riding with the popular myth type of stuff, that brings laughter from anyone who knows boxing.

Example. ...Floyd Mayweather is a coward...Hmmm for anyone to call a boxer risking his life a coward...anyone sitting in the comfort of their home on a computer behind a firewall,,typing tuff stuff....hmmmm

Your position that Duran would have owned Leonard or Mayweather at Lightweight is respected...much respect for that opinion. I differ, as I boxed before, and I know what throwing a different style does to anyone. Leonard boxed Durans head off in the 2nd fight. I actually had Ray winning the 1st fight, just like I had Mosly wnning this past weekend. However it was Durans crowd, Durans style of fight, and Duran won the ring mental games, and the Ring Generalship, regardless of how Ray fought it was Durans style of fight, and many including "possibly" yourself gave durans rounds based on Leonard had his back to the ropes,,,,Sort of like i did Mosley vs Cotto..So I admit being on the ropes hurs and someone being active against you, gives at least the impression that the other boxer is getting the best of you, most times. If you saw Benitez vs Palimino Wow.....However, when I turn off the volume and focus on the action...I have Ray winning that fight very very close..rounds 1 I gave to Ray which none of the judges did, and round 12 was very close. If you remember one judge scored most of those rounds a draw,,,I can only concur that a lot of those rounds Duran or Ray would start off strong, then the other would come back..especially after round 7..

Btw..I think Leonard and Mayweather style would always beat Duran at anyweight, just like boxing period frusterated hagler. Duran himself made a young Hagler, a Hagler that would have destroyed duran had he tryed to fight him like he did Leonard in Montreal...Duran made hagler box, lead, and used subtle movement to make it a close fight.

Leonard could not and will not ever be able to outbox a Tommy Hearns. Hearns at welterweight is too big, fast enough, has way too much reach, and in boxing you do not want to be on the end of his right hand or left hook...Therefore the only way a Leonard could outfight Hearns is simply zap his eneryg early on, pick his spots and shots...then pour it on late.. It is funny how many people who do not know boxing get on chat rooms and say garbage with out any intelligent backing of thier position and say stuff like Hearns was whipping Ray, hearns was outboxing Ray..etc...Well DuH,,,when have you ever seen hearns outboxed? What was Ray's strategy? Have you ever seen a much short man, outbox a tall fast fighter with a great jab?

Or the best most popular false myth out, Aaron Pryor use to beat Leonard in sparring, he even knocked ray down. FAlSE. I have sparred with a fellow Jimmie Matz who was often brought in by leonards camp early on when Ray was learning how to imploy power in his shots, or had a fight vs a bigger man. Jimmie was there when Pryor and him used to spar, even when Howard Davis and Ray sparred.once. He has no reason to lie, and even Pryor "himself" said ray got the best of him. Wow the myths started from 2 interviews, one where ray was approache by Pryor and asked to fight, and ray said quote "Aaron wants to fight me, you knock not knocked as if they had already boxed and this happened, he said you knock (action verbtense meaning to describe something currently happening) me down, I knock you down. That is where the false myth of Aaron Pryor knocking ray came from. and there was a guy from Aaron camp who said Aaron would give Ray a working over. Hmmm might funny when Aaron was asked about Ray twice, once he said Ray knows me, and the other time he said Yes Ray used to get the best of me in sparring, but I got in some lumps too.

I just brought all that up, because in this debate about duran, many state he is a god, but when the qualitky of his career is tested vs a Leonard hes wins were not against better fighters, and Duran fans do two things to try to discredit Leonard and others. They say, Duran was old when he lost to leonard and others,,way past is prime..,...Hmmmm So at age 29 coming off the best showing of your career in 5 months when you get your butt handed to you, all of a sudden your old! Hmmmm. Also Duran was past his prime. I will agree he was past his most effective weight, but Duran did not have a amateur career so he did not have any wear an tear from those fights and training, Leonard, Mayweather, Dlh, and other did. Leonard had 150 amateur fights...My point is Duran was not past his prime. He may have lost focus, and was in against bigger men, that can withstand that brutal style of attack he tried,and thus he became more of a boxer hearns, benitez, hagler. and when you fight bigger men that can generally withstand your punches you have to have something else...That is for every boxer,,,Duran included. That is what happened to Duran. I agree at Lightweight he was an all time great, but IMO Mayweather especially Mayweather who is not a great as ray, but had almost equal hand and foot speed pound per pound as lightweight, had better defense and would not go toe to toe with Duran....I think he would eat Durans lunch at lightweight, and Leonard beats duran anytime he wants to if he boxes....

Gavin its not meaningless, your just dealing with someone who knows boxing, and can support it with factual information including records that show the quality of Durans Lightweight resume vs Leonards at Welter.

The fact you had Leonard winning the first fight means you lose every ounce of respect I might of had while reading your posts. If you had Leonard winning you're a Duran hater...pure and simple. It is impossible to have had Leonard winning the first unless you have a love affair with him. Brainless.

As for no resume at lightweight I would happily put forward it was a deal greater than the resume of Mayweather you are putting forward. Judah: A spent force who can't fight past 3 or 4 rounds with any focus. Ko'd in last fight by a bum...Wow. DLH: old promoter well above natural weight with one fight in last 2 years (can't remember if it was 1 or 2) having lost 2 of last 4 I believe. DLH was done years before that anyway. Who else? Baldomir? Yeah...

I think you forget some names on Durans record who would whip most of the guys on Mayweathers. Leonard, Buchanan, De Jesus, Lampkin, Palomino, Kobayashi, Suzuki, Vilomar Fernandez, Edwin Viruet.

Like it or not, Duran was not the same fighter in the second fight. Watch any interview with Leonard on this subject. He will say the same thing. That Duran was weaker, slower, not as aggressive nor had the movement of the first fight. Watch the first fight again. Ray can't even land on Duran most of fight or did you forget that in your great knowledge.

People forget that Duran was very fast at lightweight, not a slow plodding pressure brawler like you seem to think as well as a master of defense himself. Anyway, I'm done. Going to bed. You say you don't even like Mayweather...you sound like the biggest Mayweather, Leonard nuthugger here. Or just a Duran hater...boring.

[Jim Jeffries]

Gavin it appears your not educated on boxing enough to deal with it.. I actually had Ray winning the 1st fight, just like I had Mosly wnning this past weekend.

Further proof how little about boxing you really know.

[wpink1]

Bennyst....Your synopsis of the 2nd fight is false, garbage and just like a Duran nuthugger. I never like to call names but since you want act childish then so be it.

The first fight hmmmm you say that it it irrational to think that Leonard won. Hmmmmm Lets see the judges in a pro duran crowd scored it 1 point win for duran, 1 point win for duran, 2 point win for duran. Hmmmm If you know the fight, you know that all scored the 1st the first round for Duran. had they scored it for leonard a round in which duran did not land one single punch to the head, Leonard wins this fight...that you say is unconcievable that he wins. I suggest you get your facts straight. You may be of the opinion Duran, won, and I am of a different opininion, however the judges had it as close as you could have it..1 single round reversed.....Get your facts straight.

As for Duran being weak and whatever the 2nd fight. That is a bunch of escuses that durans fans always make. Duran simply had to fight a diffeent style. He tried to rush in. etc...but this time Ray moved and boxed. You want to make it like Duran was a god. He quit when he realized that Leonard was simply able to outbox him. The ONLY reason he won the 1st time was because leonard lost the mental part of the fight and fought durans fight. Get your facts straight. He knew when the fight was scheduled he was just as strong, etc...Only thing is he faced a better ray, who was stronger. If you want to look at size, you will see in the 1st fight ray was much smaller. Get the Autobiography of Duran he says in there he was in top shape...In his own autobiography. I said before the fight he was in the best shape of his life an was going to Leonard. I know this is all hype, but the fact is when ray boxed him he could not adapt.


The names you said I forget...I mentioned and said they were good names ...but not Hearns, Hagler, etc..... get yoru facts straight.

[wpink1]

listen I have no issues w/ Duran.. He is clearly a top fight all time. However he had challenges too. he lost 2 Dejesus @ lightweight. Yes he revenged that fight, however u don't hear anyone saying that Dejesus was weakened not the same...etc. But u hear that Duran was not focused the 1st fight. Same w/ leonard. Anyone that ignores the clear & simple fact that Ray willingly "shelved " his boxing skills..to go toe 2 toe. No excuse..Duran won..but the style of fight was wrong 4 leonard. Also ray was sickened w/ the flu 1 week b4 the fight...but u don't hear those escuses... Finally Duran won by 4 points between 3 cards... nowhere near a beating as many on here try 2 say.

Fight 2 duran was the same...only he had 2 make weight he0wsnt weak..that was false...get his own autobiagrphy...he said....after all these years..the truthis he never said no mas.... the truthis he was furusterated cuz ray would not fight him toe 2 toe..he sai n spanish..i m not fighting this clown... but cosell came up w/ the no mas statement.. he was in tip top shape... no cramps...just frusteration... I suggest u all read wjat duran himself had 2 say..before making up stuff about ask ray..Ray said many times..example ABC interview after the fight w/ duran via satellite... he told the world it was the same duran...people making excuses....he saw a more focused & stringer n the upper body ray.....it is all on youtube....please check ur facts b4 arguing

[them_apples]

Tyson was the biggest name in the 80's yet he get's number 12? what are you a hater?