Who ranks higher at heavyweight, Tunney or Charles?

[JAB5239]

co-sign. I havent seen you around until recently but you are a VERY good poster. Hope to see you around more.

KM hasn't been around in awhile but he's a top poster who knows his stuff. Glad he's back!

[Greatest1942]

Yes true, Charles probably is the #1 lightheavy and one of the best heavyweights.

Sully your comment of CHArles laying flaton his back is a bit ...Well that means Marciano was no puncher, Satterfield, Elmer Ray(who was on a 50 fight winning streak when Charles stopped him) was none too. And say what you will about the aged Louis he did give Charles trouble . Just look at his face after the fight. Charles faced plenty of punchers please take a look at his resume. That jab of Louis was still heavy. Yes he was more past it than JAck of Tunney. But except the faded Jack who did Tunney beat at heavy pray. He didn't defend against Sharkey, never fought Godfrey or any other good heavy from that era. As kid pointed out he missed a lot of good fighters from his own era (not I blame him). But resume wise and looking into the fact that Charles was the champion for a longer time, I can't see how one article swings it for Tunney

I don't think many people will argue that the IBRO consists of the premier historians of our time and some of the best there is. Here is their poll results for light heavy

LIGHT HEAVY RANKINGS

Archie Moore

Ezzard Charles

Sam Langford

Gene Tunney

Bob Foster

Tommy Loughran

Michael Spinks

Bob Fitzsimmons

Billy Conn

Roy Jones, Jr.

Maxie Rosenbloom

John Henry Lewis

Harry Greb

Tommy Gibbons

Philadelphia Jack O'Brien

Jack Dillon

Harold Johnson

[Greatest1942]

I don't think many people will argue that the IBRO consists of the premier historians of our time and some of the best there is. Here is their poll results for light heavy

LIGHT HEAVY RANKINGS

Archie Moore

Ezzard Charles

Sam Langford

Gene Tunney

Bob Foster

Tommy Loughran

Michael Spinks

Bob Fitzsimmons

Billy Conn

Roy Jones, Jr.

Maxie Rosenbloom

John Henry Lewis

Harry Greb

Tommy Gibbons

Philadelphia Jack O'Brien

Jack Dillon

Harold Johnson

Though to be fair here, all most all of the historians ranking that I saw have Gene Tunney as a top 10 heavy. Not so with Charles. Tunney is in the top 10 of almost all historians, except the IBRO top 10 heavy list( Charles doesn't make the cut either, but Tunney is before Charles in the top 20 though)

[Spartacus Sully]

can we really build up a chin ?

never heard that before, I'd like to hear some details about that

please develop

yes.

spar people alot lighter then you a whole lot then spar people lighter then you a whole lot then finally fight people your own weight a whole lot.

look at jeffries, sparring partner for corbett for alil while before going pro probly spent hours sparring some 175 ish pound man and ends up having one of the greatest chins of all time. not to say his chin was all because of being corbetts sparring partner but to say being corbetts sparring partner had nothing to do with jeffries chin would be wrong.

[JAB5239]

yes.

spar people alot lighter then you a whole lot then spar people lighter then you a whole lot then finally fight people your own weight a whole lot.

look at jeffries, sparring partner for corbett for alil while before going pro probly spent hours sparring some 175 ish pound man and ends up having one of the greatest chins of all time. not to say his chin was all because of being corbetts sparring partner but to say being corbetts sparring partner had nothing to do with jeffries chin would be wrong.

I respectfully disagree. Fighters like Hearns, Norris, Morrison, Shavers and many others spent countless rounds sparring with guys both bigger and smaller and it didn't help them. Im of the opinion you can take it on the chin or you can't. Not really much middle ground if you ask me.

[Spartacus Sully]

I respectfully disagree. Fighters like Hearns, Norris, Morrison, Shavers and many others spent countless rounds sparring with guys both bigger and smaller and it didn't help them. Im of the opinion you can take it on the chin or you can't. Not really much middle ground if you ask me.

cant be bigger.

spar some one 20lbs lighter then you 3 rounds 5 days a week for 1 month and tell me that you cant take his punches better then 1 month earlier.

not that your going to do that but if you did i doubt you would say that your chin is the same it was prior to the month.

so for the next month your use some one thats 15 lbs lighter then you. you dont go and test your self with some one 10 lbs heavier then you then.

the worst thing you can do is jump up too much if you want to run fruther you dont run 5 miles 3 days a week one week then 10 miles 3 days a week the next just like if you want to lift heavier when you start to plateau you dont try double the wieght, like why has the water speed record never been beat since 1970? because you dont just go out there and beat the record you go out there and build up to the record or else you damage everything youve worked for.

[Tiozzo]

yes.

spar people alot lighter then you a whole lot then spar people lighter then you a whole lot then finally fight people your own weight a whole lot.

look at jeffries, sparring partner for corbett for alil while before going pro probly spent hours sparring some 175 ish pound man and ends up having one of the greatest chins of all time. not to say his chin was all because of being corbetts sparring partner but to say being corbetts sparring partner had nothing to do with jeffries chin would be wrong.

I respectfully disagree. Fighters like Hearns, Norris, Morrison, Shavers and many others spent countless rounds sparring with guys both bigger and smaller and it didn't help them. Im of the opinion you can take it on the chin or you can't. Not really much middle ground if you ask me.

cant be bigger.

spar some one 20lbs lighter then you 3 rounds 5 days a week for 1 month and tell me that you cant take his punches better then 1 month earlier.

not that your going to do that but if you did i doubt you would say that your chin is the same it was prior to the month.

so for the next month your use some one thats 15 lbs lighter then you. you dont go and test your self with some one 10 lbs heavier then you then.

the worst thing you can do is jump up too much if you want to run fruther you dont run 5 miles 3 days a week one week then 10 miles 3 days a week the next just like if you want to lift heavier when you start to plateau you dont try double the wieght, like why has the water speed record never been beat since 1970? because you dont just go out there and beat the record you go out there and build up to the record or else you damage everything youve worked for.

thanks for developing

I'm a bit skeptical, but maybe it is possible if you try to get progressively used to more and more power by starting with smaller men as you have suggested

it probably doesn't take anything away from the fact that some people do have great chins naturally though, and some have weaker ones

[Spartacus Sully]

thanks for developing

I'm a bit skeptical, but maybe it is possible if you try to get progressively used to more and more power by starting with smaller men as you have suggested

it probably doesn't take anything away from the fact that some people do have great chins naturally though, and some have weaker ones

I personally spent most of 2009 sparring my friends who the only in shape ones were around 170 ish with me being at 210, course i never went 100% on them as weight and reach was just too much of an advantage. when i first started sparring my chin would be a tad sore after the session some times even clicking but with in a few months it wasnt even a problem after a year i could take flush shots with out blinking or being phased. last july i started going to a gym sparring 190 lb people with me having lost some weight and also being around 190 with no issues though the guy i was sparring was alittle over weight and now im sparring 200 210 lb people while im still at 190 and i have yet to leave the gym with a clicking or sore jaw.

i dont know if its the correct reason but i definatly attribute my chin to having spent hours sparring and getting hit by fast lighter people.

[GJC]

Charles wins over Moore, Marshall, Burley, Maxim etc are all immaterial as they was not fought at Heavyweight, Joe Louis was much more far gone than Jack Dempsey was when losing to Tunney and Charles suffered more loses at heavyweight than he scored victories, Charles was not the brilliant fighter he had been at 160 & 175lbs when fighting at heavyweight whereas Tunney was never beaten at the higher weight and retired before ever reaching his fighting peak at that weight, so we will never know just how good Gene Tunney would have been if he had continued another 3yrs or so... would he have beaten Sharkey, Schmeling, Carnera & Baer yes most certainly.

Must say I'm struggling with this one. As impressive as Tunney's victorys over Dempsey was they only really give us a snap shot on Tunney at HW. I too think he would have beaten Sharkey, Schmeling, Carnera & Baer but I do struggle to rate a fighter at a division he only had half a dozen fights at.
I think you have to take Charles losses after Marciano 2 out of the picture as he was as shot as shot can be from then. The version of Walcott that Charles fought and Marciano would have given Tunney problems too for sure. Resume wise Charles gets it, his beating Baksi obviously heavily tips it for me but h2h i'd favour Tunney.

[sonnyboyx2]

Must say I'm struggling with this one. As impressive as Tunney's victorys over Dempsey was they only really give us a snap shot on Tunney at HW. I too think he would have beaten Sharkey, Schmeling, Carnera & Baer but I do struggle to rate a fighter at a division he only had half a dozen fights at.
I think you have to take Charles losses after Marciano 2 out of the picture as he was as shot as shot can be from then. The version of Walcott that Charles fought and Marciano would have given Tunney problems too for sure. Resume wise Charles gets it, his beating Baksi obviously heavily tips it for me but h2h i'd favour Tunney.

i can't give Walcott or Marciano a hope of beating Gene Tunney.. They simply did not have the footwork to pose a threat to Tunney who would have danced around the ring and won a clear decision over both, If Tunney could nullify the whirlwind attacks of Harry Greb as well as the brutal attacks of Jack Dempsey over a period of more than 100 rounds then i cannot give Marciano or Walcott a hope.