How Many Gift Decisions Was Muhammad Ali Given in his Career?

[Sugarj]

Im not a big fan of ALi, but maybe I should change the word gift. My idea of a gift decision is simply when a guy is given a decision I disagree with. I mean some judges are just bad. One just in the Foreman vs. Ali fight had Foreman winning 0 rounds against Ali...im sorry, I wasnt watching the same fight. ( I had it 3-3-1 going into the 8th). The same ref who had Reid beating calzaghe (116-111) also had Dimitrenko drawing Chambers. SO I think there are bad refs out there.

From what I saw he had 3 gifts. Young, and Norton 2 and 3. I thought Shavers was a draw and I havent seen the Jones fight, but have read many opinions on it, but cant comment without actually watching the fight.

I dont think Ali ever flat out got a win that wasnt close though, although the first Spinks fights scores were pretty ridiculous imo. So by gift I just mean decisions you dont agree with.

I must admit when I saw the scores for the Foreman fight I realised one thing......if it went the distance Ali was taking that title in Africa. Foreman needed to knock him out to win from the very beginning. Its all academic now, Ali deserved his win without any help from the judges, but there could have been a real stench in Zaire that night.

As for the Young fight, it was close..........I know Young did hold his head out of the ring and everything, but theres no two ways about it.........that was the worst Ali performance to date, overweight and undermotivated. Perhaps a draw would have been more just. Ali's workrate and accuracy were very subpar.

As for Norton 2, I had it even going into the last round.........which was clearly Ali's

Norton 3: This was one of those fights where the rounds that Norton won were far clearer than the rounds Ali shaded/nicked. Sadly when I totted up my card at the end I had Ali a one point winner. Norton produced the better work overall that night, and Ali's victory had more to do with the weakness of the 10 point must system than anything else.

I did have Ali a clear winner over Shavers though. Even Earnie conceeds that Ali deserved the decision. He say this in Facing Ali, the documentary. That said, I think Ali suffered more from that fight than Ernie. It was Ali's last truely decent performance.

As for the Doug Jones fight.........a very good fight, but its more about Jones doing better than expected than him actually deserving the fight. Ali predicted a sixth round KO; when he didn't get it I suppose some saw this as a moral victory for Jones. But Ali won this fight by a good few rounds to my eyes, it wasn't even close for me.

[boxing boy]

Both gift decisions that Muhammad Ali got(Young and Norton 111)were in 1976 when Ali was a shot fighter,or way past his best.

Muhammad Ali was never the same after the Trilla' in Manilla in 1975.He left a big piece of himself in the ring that night.

Prime Muhammad Ali was never given a gift decision.

[boxing boy]

Im not a big fan of ALi, but maybe I should change the word gift. My idea of a gift decision is simply when a guy is given a decision I disagree with. I mean some judges are just bad. One just in the Foreman vs. Ali fight had Foreman winning 0 rounds against Ali...im sorry, I wasnt watching the same fight. ( I had it 3-3-1 going into the 8th). The same ref who had Reid beating calzaghe (116-111) also had Dimitrenko drawing Chambers. SO I think there are bad refs out there.

From what I saw he had 3 gifts. Young, and Norton 2 and 3. I thought Shavers was a draw and I havent seen the Jones fight, but have read many opinions on it, but cant comment without actually watching the fight.

I dont think Ali ever flat out got a win that wasnt close though, although the first Spinks fights scores were pretty ridiculous imo. So by gift I just mean decisions you dont agree with.

Prime Muhammad Ali never got a gift decision.

The Doug Jones fight was in 1963,which was 4 years BEFORE Ali's Prime of 1967.I had Clay/Ali winning that fight anyway 6-4 in rounds.The fight was fought in Doug Jones's back yard,and the crowd went wild every time he threw a punch.Clay/Ali only had 17 pro fights when he fought Jones as well.He was years "before" his best years and his Prime.

Norton 2 was no way a gift decision.I had Ali winning 7-5 in rounds.

Young and Norton 3 were both when Ali was way past his Prime of 1967,and after his 3 1/2 year lay-off.Ali was a shot fighter in 1976.Ali was never the same after the Trilla' in Manilla in 1975.Ali left a big part of himself inside the ring that night.But even as a shot fighter he gave both Young and Norton close fights in 1976.

Muhammad Ali was "washed up" in 1977 and still beat Ernie Shavers in a close fight.I had Ali winning 8-6-1 in rounds.

[BattlingNelson]

I must admit when I saw the scores for the Foreman fight I realised one thing......if it went the distance Ali was taking that title in Africa. Foreman needed to knock him out to win from the very beginning. Its all academic now, Ali deserved his win without any help from the judges, but there could have been a real stench in Zaire that night.

As for the Young fight, it was close..........I know Young did hold his head out of the ring and everything, but theres no two ways about it.........that was the worst Ali performance to date, overweight and undermotivated. Perhaps a draw would have been more just. Ali's workrate and accuracy were very subpar.

As for Norton 2, I had it even going into the last round.........which was clearly Ali's

Norton 3: This was one of those fights where the rounds that Norton won were far clearer than the rounds Ali shaded/nicked. Sadly when I totted up my card at the end I had Ali a one point winner. Norton produced the better work overall that night, and Ali's victory had more to do with the weakness of the 10 point must system than anything else.

I did have Ali a clear winner over Shavers though. Even Earnie conceeds that Ali deserved the decision. He say this in Facing Ali, the documentary. That said, I think Ali suffered more from that fight than Ernie. It was Ali's last truely decent performance.

As for the Doug Jones fight.........a very good fight, but its more about Jones doing better than expected than him actually deserving the fight. Ali predicted a sixth round KO; when he didn't get it I suppose some saw this as a moral victory for Jones. But Ali won this fight by a good few rounds to my eyes, it wasn't even close for me.

Kick-ass post.


I dont think Ali got any gifts as I wouldn't say 8-7 in rounds is a gift but rather a close fight that could have gone either way. From my recollection I had Norton winning the third fight and possibly Young winning as well.

[Scott9945]

2.

Young and the 3rd fight with Norton, Young won the fight clearly and the Norton fight was close but I feel it was a win for him and so do many others.

I was just about to enter the same reply, so I just bumped yours.

[Obama]

2.

Young and the 3rd fight with Norton, Young won the fight clearly and the Norton fight was close but I feel it was a win for him and so do many others.

What he said. And Doug Jones has more claim to beating Ali than Ali does to beating Jimmy Young. Disgraceful robbery.

That aside, why does the thread starter think Norton beat Ali worse than Frazier in the first fights?

I mean seriously. Does anyone else really feel that way?

[HaglerSteelChin]

When i first saw Ali-Shavers i thought it was a gift win. As there were several rounds where Shavers really gave Ali a beating, but i think now it was a draw, with Ali rallying in the final 30 seconds of the final round to retain his title.

I agree with the other posters on the Frazier and Norton fights, when you have 2-3 rounds that can go either way, difficult to say it was a gift win.

As a side note, i recently saw Ali-Frazier 1 again, and although Mercante is a legend, i didn't like how he officiated that fight. There was that one KD that seem to be a delayed KD that was not scored, and there one point where i think Frazier pushed Ali and was not warned, or might have been Ali pushing Frazier, but the point was the fighter was not warned for pushing.

[Greatest1942]

I must admit when I saw the scores for the Foreman fight I realised one thing......if it went the distance Ali was taking that title in Africa. Foreman needed to knock him out to win from the very beginning. Its all academic now, Ali deserved his win without any help from the judges, but there could have been a real stench in Zaire that night.

As for the Young fight, it was close..........I know Young did hold his head out of the ring and everything, but theres no two ways about it.........that was the worst Ali performance to date, overweight and undermotivated. Perhaps a draw would have been more just. Ali's workrate and accuracy were very subpar.

As for Norton 2, I had it even going into the last round.........which was clearly Ali's

Norton 3: This was one of those fights where the rounds that Norton won were far clearer than the rounds Ali shaded/nicked. Sadly when I totted up my card at the end I had Ali a one point winner. Norton produced the better work overall that night, and Ali's victory had more to do with the weakness of the 10 point must system than anything else.

I did have Ali a clear winner over Shavers though. Even Earnie conceeds that Ali deserved the decision. He say this in Facing Ali, the documentary. That said, I think Ali suffered more from that fight than Ernie. It was Ali's last truely decent performance.

As for the Doug Jones fight.........a very good fight, but its more about Jones doing better than expected than him actually deserving the fight. Ali predicted a sixth round KO; when he didn't get it I suppose some saw this as a moral victory for Jones. But Ali won this fight by a good few rounds to my eyes, it wasn't even close for me.

Ali-Shavers was a draw on many cards not mine only. Norton ali 3,I scored for Norton clearly, as did a host of other experts. But its okay if you don't. Young-ali was disputed to put it mildly.

[Sugarj]

Kick-ass post.


I dont think Ali got any gifts as I wouldn't say 8-7 in rounds is a gift but rather a close fight that could have gone either way. From my recollection I had Norton winning the third fight and possibly Young winning as well.

Cheers bud.

[Sugarj]

Ali-Shavers was a draw on many cards not mine only. Norton ali 3,I scored for Norton clearly, as did a host of other experts. But its okay if you don't. Young-ali was disputed to put it mildly.

The trick with Ali vs Shavers was that this was one of those fights where the judges cards were broadcast mid round to the viewers. Angelo Dundee had apparently had a spy relaying the scores. I guess Ali therefore knew when he could take a break or put his foot on the gas that night.

Good fight though!