''I was afraid of Sam Langford''-Jack Dempsey

[sonnyboyx2]

With all due respect Sonny I have read that book. What parts are you claiming are fictional?

JAB... as you well know we have been over this topic in the past about the book Charley Burley & the murders row... the parts i found to be pure fiction is the constant claim of great fighters supposedly "Ducking" black fighters, Burley was in his prime in the early 1940s and the book claims he was "Ducked" by Zivic, Zale, Robinson etc which in my opinion cannot be further from the truth, WWII broke out in 1941 and all world title belts was suspended yet the book fails to say this and repeatedly claims these great fighters `ran scared`which is pure fiction, also most of the Black fighters never had decent managers who could secure them the big fights they changed managers as often as they changed their clothes, there was also huge Mob involvement in boxing at that time with the Mob not wanting to get involved with Black fighters as they believed they never gave their best when matched against eachother which has proved the case from as far back as the turn of the century... The only place I disagree with historians regarding Burley was his race being a factor. Blacks had been fighting for world titles since the 1800s(Joe Walcott, George Dixon, etc) and there were black titleholders at the time of Burley's prime. So I don't see race being a factor here. The problem is that when a white titleholder ducks a black it's called "racism". When a black champ does it it's called "smart business"... The book was also written alongside Burley family members and their accounts of the time which differs to actual facts, As for the movies `Hurricane & Raging Bull`which i also claimed are fabricated, there are litigation claims against the producers for fabricating the events and `jazzing them up for Hollywood` Jake LaMotta saying,"You couldn't put me down Ray" in the St.Valentines Day Massacre was fabricated and simply not true as was the fight scenes in Hurricane.

[Greatest1942]

JAB... as you well know we have been over this topic in the past about the book Charley Burley & the murders row... the parts i found to be pure fiction is the constant claim of great fighters supposedly "Ducking" black fighters, Burley was in his prime in the early 1940s and the book claims he was "Ducked" by Zivic, Zale, Robinson etc which in my opinion cannot be further from the truth, WWII broke out in 1941 and all world title belts was suspended yet the book fails to say this and repeatedly claims these great fighters `ran scared`which is pure fiction, also most of the Black fighters never had decent managers who could secure them the big fights they changed managers as often as they changed their clothes, there was also huge Mob involvement in boxing at that time with the Mob not wanting to get involved with Black fighters as they believed they never gave their best when matched against eachother which has proved the case from as far back as the turn of the century... The only place I disagree with historians regarding Burley was his race being a factor. Blacks had been fighting for world titles since the 1800s(Joe Walcott, George Dixon, etc) and there were black titleholders at the time of Burley's prime. So I don't see race being a factor here. The problem is that when a white titleholder ducks a black it's called "racism". When a black champ does it it's called "smart business"... The book was also written alongside Burley family members and their accounts of the time which differs to actual facts, As for the movies `Hurricane & Raging Bull`which i also claimed are fabricated, there are litigation claims against the producers for fabricating the events and `jazzing them up for Hollywood` Jake LaMotta saying,"You couldn't put me down Ray" in the St.Valentines Day Massacre was fabricated and simply not true as was the fight scenes in Hurricane.

Tiger Flowers was champ in 1920's so by your logic blacks were not discriminated during the time as he was the champ, all other weigh classes got equal oppurtunity.

Zivic's team bought Burley's contact. And for your education Burley was ranked in the top for over 100 months...before and after ww2...That book was as fair as it could be.




Zivic and his manager bought Burley's contract so that Zivic wouldn't have to give his two-time conqueror a title shot and, after he lost the championship in 1941, Zivic held onto the contract in order to prevent Burley from coming between him and another title try; after the United States entered World War II, the world titles were 'frozen' so that the boxing champs could contribute to the war effort, so NO ONE was given a welterweight or middleweight title shot from 1942 to 1946; before the 'alphabet' title organizations (like the WBC, WBA, IBF, WBO, etc, etc) came along (and ruined boxing), there were no such things as 'mandatory title defenses', so champions were free to avoid any contender they chose to ('big fights' simply came about as the result of fan demand i.e. $!); and the fight game and many of its champions were controlled by the mob, and contenders, like Burley, who refused to bow down to these thugs, were denied title shots (for example, Jake LaMotta had to throw a fight with Billy Fox before he received his long overdue try for middleweight laurels). Add to all that the fact that Burley was a great fighter and that several of the post-war champs had been ducking him since before the war, and its not hard to see why he never challenged for a title, which is a pity because Charley Burley was a hell of a fighter.

[sonnyboyx2]

i will leave you to argue it out with your other alias's, ive stated my case and i will stick to it in that Jack Dempsey would have destroyed any version of Sam Langford in a hyperthetical head 2 head, unlike what you have set up here in this topic which is like a young Mike Tyson being asked in 1985 "could he beat Larry Holmes" i need not tell you what he would have said.

The difference between me and you is that i look at boxing in a realistic way and not in an idealistical way like yourself.

[McGrain]

i will leave you to argue it out with your other alias's, ive stated my case and i will stick to it in that Jack Dempsey would have destroyed any version of Sam Langford in a hyperthetical head 2 head, unlike what you have set up here in this topic which is like a young Mike Tyson being asked in 1985 "could he beat Larry Holmes" i need not tell you what he would have said.

The difference between me and you is that i look at boxing in a realistic way and not in an idealistical way like yourself.

I can see that i've stepped into some dispute you've been having with other posters, but your allegations that books written by respected journalists are "fiction", your general sidestepping of other posts and your paranoid accusations regarding "aliases" (as the third of three opposing posters, and the only one you haven't directed any answers at, despite DETAILED objections, I can only presume you are thinking of me?) seems to indicate an inexplicably political position on a board that concerns itself with boxing...strange.

[McGrain]

JAB... as you well know we have been over this topic in the past about the book Charley Burley & the murders row... the parts i found to be pure fiction is the constant claim of great fighters supposedly "Ducking" black fighters, Burley was in his prime in the early 1940s and the book claims he was "Ducked" by Zivic, Zale, Robinson etc

There are no details concerning Zale's "ducking" Burley. There ARE details concerning Robinson, but they are DETAILS concerning Robinsons negotionating tactics - not, by any means, a secret. There are also details concerning Zivic, NOT DISPUTED ANYWHERE, EVER, EXCEPT BY YOU, wherein Zivic appears to have bought Burley's contract - and thereafter, having met Burley three times for 1-2 as challenger, refuses to meet him as a champion.

The "etc." is as vague as many of your posts, but as concerns LaMotta, for example, there are details in Rosenfeld's arguably superior tomb on the same era and men. Is he a liar too?

[sonnyboyx2]

I can see that i've stepped into some dispute you've been having with other posters, but your allegations that books written by respected journalists are "fiction", your general sidestepping of other posts and your paranoid accusations regarding "aliases" (as the third of three opposing posters, and the only one you haven't directed any answers at, despite DETAILED objections, I can only presume you are thinking of me?) seems to indicate an inexplicably political position on a board that concerns itself with boxing...strange.

well my friend.. i am of the opinion that you are Bolo punch, Joey Giardello, Greatest1942 & McGrain... your wording, writing and argument is exact and i have also had a couple of private messages from other members warning me of who your alias names are, i have had Greatest1942 on my ignore list for several days yet he is still able to read my comments which points to him using alias names so i will call a halt to it and add all the alias names to my ignore list but will stick by my opinions which i stated above on this topic... also i have been looking at your statistics as well as Greatest1942s statistics and it is quite amazing how many threads you both have started on Sam Langford, Harry Grebb & Charley Burley i would even go as far as saying between you both youz have started almost every single thread on those 3 fighters over the last 12 months or more, which is bazaar when you claim not to be the same person..


Your trying to convince me of Sam Langfords greatness yet i already agreed with you on that matter a few days ago and yet you try to now claim i am delusional because i say Ray Robinson was the greatest fighter ever.

If any other member was doing what you are doing in respect to your Sam Langford case yet they was doing it with say Wlad Klitschko then that member would be brought to boot for "Nuthugging" and after seeing all the posts and threads you have started on the guy i can only assume that your a nuthugger especially with you using the "Back-up Alias's" it is sad really

[NChristo]

If you have someone on your ignore list they can still read your posts but you can't read theirs, think you got it confused Sonny.

Think that's how it is anyway.

[McGrain]

i only talk boxing.

But all of this has started because you STOPPED talking boxing and started levelling strange accusations at your fellow posters!! Based upon the fact that two guys like the same fighter!! I post regularly on another forum, and i've never, ever, seen any weirdness like this.

[sonnyboyx2]

But all of this has started because you STOPPED talking boxing and started levelling strange accusations at your fellow posters!! Based upon the fact that two guys like the same fighter!! I post regularly on another forum, and i've never, ever, seen any weirdness like this.

i don't think so.. it started because i posted this video under the title "P4P the greatest fighter ever"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vgmbt...eature=related

and you & greatest1942 disagreed

[McGrain]

i don't think so.. it started because i posted this video under the title "P4P the greatest fighter ever"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vgmbt...eature=related

and you & greatest1942 disagreed

Yes, we disagreed about BOXING. Then:

1) You stopped talking about boxing and started babblng about posting aliases. Why? Why not just talk boxing with both aliases, even if you were right (and you're wrong).

2) You claimed "you just talk boxing".

3) I pointed out that you DON'T just talk boxing, you stopped talking boxing when you started talking about aliases.

4) You said I was wrong, that it all started when you posted a video (which totally misses the point, either on purpose or by mistake).


All in all, a very strange evening on the internet!