''I was afraid of Sam Langford''-Jack Dempsey

[Sugarj]

While I will ignore Sonny's rant about langford knowing full well his ignorance about Sam, I will tell you mate what happened as I know it

What Jack said was
“The hell I feared no man. There was one man I wouldn't fight because I knew he would flatten me. I was afraid of Sam Langford.”

In June 1916, the 21-year-old Dempsey quickly declined an opportunity to face an aging Langford. He was right in a sense because Langford at that time was very exp.d and too much for the undergrown Jack back then. He declined the fight and while rememering that incident made this famous quote in his autobiography, no humbleness but the truth. He had also climbed out of the ring when asked to fight Joe Jeanette around the same period who Sam had KO'd earlier.

As for the Fred Fulton fight which Sonny ignorantly posts, I would like to state this

1) It was in that Fulton fight that Sam reportedly lost his vision, he had trouble with the other eye from before

2)He was far past his prime back then. By the logic of Sonny if A beat B and B beat C , A> C, which is nothing but absolute idiocy in boxing.

Foreman destroyed Frazier in two rounds who had beaten Ali earlier. So Foreman should have beat Ali easy right? Guess what happened there?

Foreman beat Ali did he?

Yep I thought it must be pre 1919 Dempsey.

[Greatest1942]

Yep I thought it must be pre 1919 Dempsey.

Yes and while Jack was climbing out of the ring instead of facing Jeanette , Sam faced Joe Jeanette. Here's a recap of the fight from F. Hurdman-Lucas:

“Those who are continually barking that two men of colour never put up a good fight had better creep back into their kennels right now. A few more slams like the one we had on this night and the whole world would worship at the shrine of Pugilisticus. I am prepared to uphold the contention that the Langford-Jeannette battle has been the greatest fillip to the noble art in France since the Harry Lewis-Leo Houc contest. Never have two heavyweights put up such a grand slam as the two above mentioned rivals did on this occasion.

From the world “go” it was apparent that things were going to hum on this night, for even the 1st round seemed too fast and severe to last. Both men went all out from the start, and how they kept up such a lick is just a mystery of the flesh of which Jeannette and Langford alone seem to hold the secret. It has been said of the latter that he was a 10 round fighter, and that after such a distance he fell away into insignifigance. Whence came these opinions heaven only knows. True, Sam was getting a trifle tired when the end arrived on this occasion, but he had not left off punching for 20 rounds, and they were punches, too, no butter pats here.

Although less weighty, Jeannette’s deliveries were perhaps more academical, but they failed to disturb Langford’s equanimity. At long range Joe had a great deal to say with the left, which often reached his opponent’s face and stomach. This last-named portion of Sam’s anatomy stood out in comfortable prominence, by the way, but manager Woodman says that his famous colt’s rotundity amidships is natural, and not at all composed of fat. Be that as it may, Jeannette made many attempts to bury one or the other of his fists in that black bolster, but Sam remained unmoved.

At close quarters, Langford’s boxing was positively deadly, while Jeannette seemed all at sea. It is when at half-arm striking distance that all Sam’s devastating work was accomplished, for he was as unsuccessful at full range as Jeannette was at short ditto.

For the first five rounds, Jeannette actually appeared nervous, a thing that I had never before noticed in him. But now that we have seen Langford in his full war-paint this apparent anxiety is comprehensible. I would sooner face a battery of cannon than the Boston Tar Baby.

As the 13th round was rung in there were many who saw a possible winner in Joe, for the more he goes the better he gets. Not that his blows worried Sam in the least, but they counted as points. The usual tremor reigned in most hearts as the fateful round commenced, for one almost felt that something was in the air. All anxiety was being dispelled when suddenly Langford shot out his right when close up, followed by a formidable left hook. Down went Jeannette, the while Langford lost is footing and fell across his prostrate opponent. Joe sat up and looked round him with glassy eyes until the count of 9 came along. Slowly raising himself, he stood near his corner with back to the ropes for support, as a shower of water reached his quivering body. This action gave rise to loud cries of protest, but these were lost in the excitement of the moment. Another right and left came along, and once more Jeannette was on the boards for the full respite. With that leonine courage that never foresakes him, Joe regained his feet, but was no sooner up than these refused to carry him, and he fell for another count. He was, however, up again, leaning against the ropes when time crept up. Sam was just agout to let go the coup de grace when the gong put the brakes on. It must have sounded good to Jeannette if he really heard it, for it is more than possible that another few seconds would have seen the end of the battle.

Jeannette regained his corner, and with his habitual recuperative powers started off the 14th round as if nothing had happened. He even forced matters, and at the end of the session had well held his own. Cries of “Bravo, Jeannette!” greeted his efforts. Joe actually had the best of his man in the 15th round, and, although Langford was, as was the call all through the fight, by the way, terribly dangerous, Joe took chances, and scored with many hard lefts and a right. Sam’s chief contributions were two – a rat-tat postman’s knock, lefts, and some hard stuff at close quarters.

Throwing purdence to the winds, Jeannette went all out in the 16th round, leaving his jaw open for a left hook in the process. He was positively asking for it in his mad pursuit, and it duly came. For a few seconds his legs shivered, and he tottered. It was but a momentary trouble, however, and his left shot out on time.

Both men appeared strong in the 17th session, albeit Jeannette’s punches carried little sting. Langford’s blows were as weighty as ever, and many must have been the prayer that went up for Joe.

A terrific right swing just grazed Jeannette’s chin and slithered off, thus giving him a life. He was still boxing with his jaw exposed, and it seemed as if nothing but a miracle could prevent a punch paying a visit. Luck favoured him, however, in that Sam was taking a rest. The next two passages were, strangely enough, for Jeannette, for, where he appeared, as is usually the case with him, to be getting fresher, Langford was beginning to feel the strain of his incessant punching. So it was that, with full confidence, Joe sailed into his man with left after left. Each time Langford waded in close, however, there was another tale to tell, for those nasty, crisp jolts and short hooks created deadly havoc. Jeannette opened the 19th round with a series of right uppercuts, and so succussful were these proving that he brought out at least half a dozen more ere Langford could get a punch home. This meeting was entirely in Joe’s favour, and his partisans began to see the glimmer of a draw. But these hopes, frail though they wee, completely broke down in the 20th round.

Going all out for a decisive win, Jeannete seemed to forget that Langford might be doing likewise. Leaving himself totally uncovered, Joe slammed in several lefts and two right upper-cuts, when a fearful left smash on the mouth drew a cascade of blood, and slowed him right up. A left and right on the top of this sent Jeannette to the ropes, where he stood in groggy condition. It seemed once more all over for this fine athlete, but he had retained sufficient lucidity to duch all the mighty rights that were aimed at his jaw, and by judicious clinching, finished this memorable fight on his feet. The applause was deafening, for whereas Langford had shown all present that he is undoubtedly the most redoubtable heavyweight in the world, Jeannette gave one more splendid proof of his toughness.

As Willie Lewis truly said after the battle, “My advice to fighters is, leave Langford alone. He’s all very well to meet once in a lifetime, but no more.” All this makes us wonder what knd of a man must be Gunboat Smith, if reports of his victory over Langford be true. It seems too incredible. Jack Johnson must now meet Langford, or forever forfeit the respect of those who still see in him the rightful world’s titleholder.”

Gunboat got KO'd by Sam the next time around.

[Greatest1942]

When did he say this?

I think he must have been referring to the times long before he was champion. I dont think many would have picked 1919-1926 Langford over Dempsey......and certainly not by knockout. The poor guy was getting on a bit and his vision was deteriorating.

And while some guys post that contemporary people thought Jack will always beat Sam , here's what two guys who knew a bit about them spoke

"Langford versus Dempsey, both in their prime would have been bad news for Dempsey. He could be hit easily with a right hand and if anybody had a right hand it was 'The Tar Baby.' I'll go further and declare that Langford would have waded through every heavy champ we've had including the current soldier boy, Joe Louis. Louis is a great champ, I grant, but he's inclined to get hot and bothered when the going gets rough. Langford was as cool as an iceberg every minute he was in there. He never lost his head."
-- Gunboat Smith, in a 1942 article in Fight Stories
cited Moyle, 'Sam Langford: Boxing's Greatest Uncrowned Champion', p. 301

"If you ask me, I'll say the hardest hitter I ever went up against was Sam Langford. I fought most of the heavyweights of the last twenty years, Jack Johnson among them, and I think Langford could knock a fellow colder than any of them. It was like being hit with a baseball bat. He hit you so hard you didn't feel it. It was like taking ether -- you just went to sleep and you didn't know anything about it until you woke up."
-- 'Fireman' Jim Flynn, Washington Post, 6 May 1923
cited Moyle, p. 348

[Sugarj]

And while some guys post that contemporary people thought Jack will always beat Sam , here's what two guys who knew a bit about them spoke

"Langford versus Dempsey, both in their prime would have been bad news for Dempsey. He could be hit easily with a right hand and if anybody had a right hand it was 'The Tar Baby.' I'll go further and declare that Langford would have waded through every heavy champ we've had including the current soldier boy, Joe Louis. Louis is a great champ, I grant, but he's inclined to get hot and bothered when the going gets rough. Langford was as cool as an iceberg every minute he was in there. He never lost his head."
-- Gunboat Smith, in a 1942 article in Fight Stories
cited Moyle, 'Sam Langford: Boxing's Greatest Uncrowned Champion', p. 301

"If you ask me, I'll say the hardest hitter I ever went up against was Sam Langford. I fought most of the heavyweights of the last twenty years, Jack Johnson among them, and I think Langford could knock a fellow colder than any of them. It was like being hit with a baseball bat. He hit you so hard you didn't feel it. It was like taking ether -- you just went to sleep and you didn't know anything about it until you woke up."
-- 'Fireman' Jim Flynn, Washington Post, 6 May 1923
cited Moyle, p. 348

In all honesty how do you think Langford would do against prime Dempsey and prime Louis?

I've got my own thoughts but I wouldn't mind reading your own views.

[Greatest1942]

In all honesty how do you think Langford would do against prime Dempsey and prime Louis?

I've got my own thoughts but I wouldn't mind reading your own views.

Jack and Joe will be favoured against Sam. No doubt but it won't be a blow out. Sam is live money against anyone. And in a 5 fight series I see him winning at least once vs each of them, though losing the series.

my gripe is with fellows who say that Jack was respected very much back then and people never thought Sam could have beaten him. Sorry not the truth , and in a p4p sense I see Sam blowing them out of water.

[sonnyboyx2]

Dempsey would have murdered Langford... Greatest1942 is talking like Langford was the greatest fighter in the history of boxing when the reality of it is that he was far from it, only yesterday he said that no one knows about Sam Langford which is laughable.. Langford was no doubt a great fighter yet his place in boxing history is rightly exactly where it should be, He has not been overlooked because Historians and writers had/have never heard of him, almost every boxing book pre 1960 would have a chapter devoted to "The Boston Tar Baby" yet to claim he would beat Louis, Marciano, Dempsey, Frazier etc is simply taking it too far because the great writer's from the turn of the century never thought him capable of doing so and to try to put Sam on a level above Ray Robinson is in all honesty "going a step to far"

[JAB5239]

Dempsey would have murdered Langford... Greatest1942 is talking like Langford was the greatest fighter in the history of boxing when the reality of it is that he was far from it, only yesterday he said that no one knows about Sam Langford which is laughable.. Langford was no doubt a great fighter yet his place in boxing history is rightly exactly where it should be, He has not been overlooked because Historians and writers had/have never heard of him, almost every boxing book pre 1960 would have a chapter devoted to "The Boston Tar Baby" yet to claim he would beat Louis, Marciano, Dempsey, Frazier etc is simply taking it too far because the great writer's from the turn of the century never thought him capable of doing so and to try to put Sam on a level above Ray Robinson is in all honesty "going a step to far"

Many at the time thought he would have beat Johnson if given the rematch. If he could beat Johnson (no proof) I'd give him a shot with all the above. Jmo.

[McGrain]

Dempsey would have murdered Langford...

Maybe. Langford certainly would have been the most qualified fighter Dempsey had ever faced, and has a better HW resume than any boxer that Dempsey ever met. Certainly when the original meeting was mooted, Dempsey would have been the one getting murdered and knew it.

Greatest1942 is talking like Langford was the greatest fighter in the history of boxing when the reality of it is that he was far from it

"Far from it" is a ridiculous thing to say. I say any p4p list that has him outside the top 4 is not good. Langford beat great fighters from lightweight-heavyweight. I think he's the greatest that ever lived personally, and although that's a matter for opinion, "far from it" is genuinely objectionable IMO.

Langford was no doubt a great fighter yet his place in boxing history is rightly exactly where it should be, He has not been overlooked because Historians and writers had/have never heard of him, almost every boxing book pre 1960 would have a chapter devoted to "The Boston Tar Baby" yet to claim he would beat Louis, Marciano, Dempsey, Frazier etc is simply taking it too far because the great writer's from the turn of the century never thought him capable of doing so and to try to put Sam on a level above Ray Robinson is in all honesty "going a step to far"

Charley Burley was forgotten by history for a spell, so was Elbows McFadden, so was Jack McAuliffe, so was Holman Williams, Lloyd Marshall, NP Jack Dempsey, these men are now getting their due for a variety of reasons, not least emerging footage and the internet as a research tool. "Langford wasn't great because he didn't receive coverage" is a ludicrous argument, the worst kind of circular logic.

People who saw both Louis and Langford thought Langford was a reasonable pick. I think Louis is a better HW, but I respect the viewpoint of guys like Charlie Rose a historian who saw BOTH FIGHTERS and thought Louis was #2.

Langford's reputation slipped when his generation of journalists died off. He's now reclaiming his rightful place near the top of boxing's mountain.

[McGrain]

Many at the time thought he would have beat Johnson if given the rematch. If he could beat Johnson (no proof) I'd give him a shot with all the above. Jmo.

Peak for peak, I like Johnson, but I think Langford would have got Johnson any time after Jeffries.

[Spartacus Sully]

180 langford vs 210 johnson as a maybe, 180 langford vs 190 dempsey i see as a maybe, but a 180 langford vs 200 louis aint happening.