Ali overated??? i dont think so...

[- Evil -]

this whole part of your post is based on a past his prime ali, do we need to write about a past his prime tyson (whose prime lasted like 3 days or so)? and how he lost to any great fighter he faced and had no learning process at all? oh yes he learned to bite...

No we don't need to.

Ali 1967 was arguably the fastest HW in boxing history (feet and hands), had one of the greatest chin in boxing history, one of the greatest jab in HW history, could frustrate his opponent physically by tieing him up (even big xtra-strong ppl like liston and foreman) and psychologically. Add to the above great stamina and you have quite a toolbox to defeat Tyson.

this is my opinion, what exactly do you mean by "prime Tyson had the physical abilitys to beat any heavyweight ever"

KO him? ali survived liston foreman and shavers and wa quite hard to hit in his prime

decision him? how exactly by out jabbing him? by sticking and moving faster than ali? by fighting on the inside where ali would tie him and lay on him?

I am curious

I cant believe how big of a hype Ali is, i just watch him fight and i cant see this amazing speed and movement.

IMO Tyson could beat Ali, IMO Marciano, Dempsey and Louis would hand Ali his ass!!

But the simple fact is no Heavyweight will ever be considered better than Ali!! The out of the ring Ali created the biggest sporting hype ever, so i'll accept there is no reasoning with Ali fans and discontinue this debate.

[wmute]

I cant believe how big of a hype Ali is, i just watch him fight and i cant see this amazing speed and movement.

IMO Tyson could beat Ali, IMO Marciano, Dempsey and Louis would hand Ali his ass!!

But the simple fact is no Heavyweight will ever be considered better than Ali!! The out of the ring Ali created the biggest sporting hype ever, so i'll accept there is no reasoning with Ali fans and discontinue this debate.

if you can't see the speed and movement

2 cases

1) you don't see what everyone else is seeing
2) you only have seen the 70s Ali

which one of the 2?

also, I think there is no reasoning with you... I base my opinions (which of course might be wrong) on what I see in fights and write it, you just write "I think x beats y"... or refer to "physical abilities", I think you should bother in explaining what you see in tyson would get the best of a prime ali instead of dropping your divine wisdom on us.

[- Evil -]

if you can't see the speed and movement

2 cases

1) you don't see what everyone else is seeing
2) you only have seen the 70s Ali

which one of the 2?

also, I think there is no reasoning with you... I base my opinions (which of course might be wrong) on what I see in fights and write it, you just write "I think x beats y"... or refer to "physical abilities", I think you should bother in explaining what you see in tyson would get the best of a prime ali instead of dropping your divine wisdom on us.

The reason i dont comment on the possible match up because there no way of me proving my point, the only reason i posted on this thread is because someone said Ali would whip Marciano and Tyson. I disagree but i wish i hadnt bothered because i know how deluded Ali fans are.

And FYI boxing isnt just the sweet sciene, its also about beating the **** out of the other guy.

Talk boxing about possible fights and i'll give you good reasoning.

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The reason i dont comment on the possible match up because there no way of me proving my point, the only reason i posted on this thread is because someone said Ali would whip Marciano and Tyson. I disagree but i wish i hadnt bothered because i know how deluded Ali fans are.

And FYI boxing isnt just the sweet sciene, its also about beating the **** out of the other guy.

Talk boxing about possible fights and i'll give you good reasoning.

whatever... I think boxing is the sweet science OF beating the **** out of the other guy... tyson knew that and was a great scholar who fought in a smart way in his short prime, cus d'amato put enough sweet science in that crazy head who sat on top of that incredible body to make him the youngest HW champ of the world.

The great Jack Dempsey, the symbol of the violence in boxing in his time, the tyson of the 20s in a way, got beaten by a scholar in Tunney, who studied him for years.

you did not answer my question though... have you seen ali's fights from the 60s? if not there are a few you can download on emule (that's where I got them) and enjoy the movement and speed

[- Evil -]

whatever... I think boxing is the sweet science OF beating the **** out of the other guy... tyson knew that and was a great scholar who fought in a smart way in his short prime, cus d'amato put enough sweet science in that crazy head who sat on top of that incredible body to make him the youngest HW champ of the world.

The great Jack Dempsey, the symbol of the violence in boxing in his time, the tyson of the 20s in a way, got beaten by a scholar in Tunney, who studied him for years.

you did not answer my question though... have you seen ali's fights from the 60s? if not there are a few you can download on emule (that's where I got them) and enjoy the movement and speed

I have no doubt that its more likely that Ali win a rematch, he fought a lot better when he knew his opponent.

Do you think Tunney would have beaten Dempsey if he hadnt studied him him for years? or if the fights had taken place before his career became hollywood stagnent?

To answer your question yes, i have made a point of watching a lot of Ali's fights. i wanted to see the hype for myself.

If a fighter is called the greatest by members of the puplic who have never seen him fight(and there are plenty of them) he must be overated!!

Ali was great for the sport at one stage but history should have forgotten him and moved on, even now the only fight you can buy from a video store are Ali's. Its disrespectful to all the other champs that he was so over hyped, its bad for the sport that nobody will ever live up to his reputation again.

[Floydmayweather]

See Ali makes his fights look easy. Fighters were afraid just to let their hands go.(with a few expections) Watch the big cat williams fight and u will see why some fighters did not want to open up against him. the list of fighhters he beats speaks for itself. U could argue that a few Heavy weights would have a shot at beating ALi in his prime but its only about 3 fighters. I still say Ali is the greatest.

[roXy graziano]

then who was the greatest fighter ?

Rocky Graziano No just kidding (even though he's my alltime favorite)

I don't think there is a greatest fighter. As ****** as that sounds

[gogan]

Ali might not have been the best, i personally believe sugar ray leonard was crazy for what he did and maybe not better but just as great as Ali. Ali isn't the greatest but he fought the greatest and beat the greatest. You can't pick one, you can only single out several that were above the best. You'd have to admit though that Ali wen't against them all and didn't beat them to peices but he still won. He fought the fast, he fought the tall, he fought the tactical and he fought the monsters. I'd personally say foreman was the tyson of his time and Ali out smarted foreman, just like hed do for tyson. Marcianno is a mystery to me thouhg, he had amazing power and never looked like he should of. I really dont know what would happen there for him and ali. i supose if ali knew of his power he'd never let him hit him though. Ali used his brain. One thing most boxers never use. Ali wasn't the greatest of them all, he will just be remembered as one of them.

[joho]

i think ali is slightly overrated because of the hype

[dmar]

here's my deal on Ali : like you said, he wasn't technically the best boxer. The things you've mentioned that supposedly make him stand out (ability to take punishment for example) isn't entirely unique. What makes Ali truly stand out among all other fighters? People always seem to think he was the best

If we all got to see our fantasy fights I'd see Marciano and Ali and I'm sure Marciano would win. I've heard people say Tyson could beat Ali and I don't agree with that. I don't know about me brown bomber but that would be sweet to see together

No doubt Ali was a great fighter but I do think he was (is) overrated and definetely don't think he was the greatest fighter of all time as so many people do. I will give you that he was a smart fighter, fast, and could take a beating and come back but like I said he's not the only one and that doesn't make him stand out

rrr I guess I'll get some negative feedback for this

excellent post..first ali yes was an all time great..no doubt..overated..if i had to make a list he would be number 1..i dont like fantasy fights ..thats just me..but ali had problems with all who fought with a style like rocky..frazier spinks cooper bonevena etc..he did the most magnificent job of promoting himself..im the greatest..a hero to the media..hyped by the media like larry merchant who at that time new zero about figters..ditto norman mailer..alis the best of his era..thats all you can ask a fighter to be..he had too many awfull performances to be called the greatest..henry cooper at 185 lbs koed him..yes..angelo dundee saves him via cut glove so ali gets a 6-7 miute rest..he was done..see the film clips.the bell saves him..a bum spinks 8 pro fights and had a drawe in those 8.goes 30 rounds and holds him even..weak chin no defence no puncer at all..a swarming style backs ali up for 30 rounds and staggers him..jimmy young beat him..ron lyle a slow mover out boxed him for 10 rounds..fight stoped when kyle played possum not hurst..evangelista may of won that fight..ali did zero to get desision.decked by sonny banks he wins on cuts..out of shape in many fights..awfull against chuck weapner..EGADS..ditto mac foster joe bugner jimmy ellis ..yes the best of his era..which was a good era..thats all you can say or ask..pep robinson greb armstrong and others yes greater..