Ali overated??? i dont think so...

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Overrated?

if ppl think he is the greatest boxer of all time, yes

if ppl think he is the greatest HW of all time, no

i am cool with who thinks marciano would win vs ali (yet I don't agree), but... tyson?!?!? get real!

Ali stopped 2 of the most intimidating hard hitting fighters in HW history when noone gave him a chance... and in 74 he was well past his prime

big punchers (moreso when they are bullies) are often perceived to be unbeatable, and until they meet their master and their career is ruined for years or ended

Ali was the master for 2 of them

[- Evil -]

Ali is overrated. Ha, he beat Liston, Frasier, Ken Norton, Foreman, and leon spinks as an old man. Even in defeat he was in the fight. If you think he is overrated name one heavyweight figther in history who could take the punishment he took from Foreman and then still knock him out. Get real

Get real yourself!

Ali is regarded the greatest boxer by people who have never seen him fight, its the Ali hype that was the greatest.

I'm not saying Ali was bad, i admit the guy had ability but the best boxers ever

[- Evil -]

Overrated?

if ppl think he is the greatest boxer of all time, yes

if ppl think he is the greatest HW of all time, no

i am cool with who thinks marciano would win vs ali (yet I don't agree), but... tyson?!?!? get real!

Ali stopped 2 of the most intimidating hard hitting fighters in HW history when noone gave him a chance... and in 74 he was well past his prime

big punchers (moreso when they are bullies) are often perceived to be unbeatable, and until they meet their master and their career is ruined for years or ended

Ali was the master for 2 of them

This is an arguement no one will win, there isnt much point in it.

IMO prime Tyson had the phsyical abilitys to beat any heavyweight ever, he's obviously beatable but i'd make him a favourite over Ali. You think different so lets agree to disagree because there's no chance of us ever being proved right.

[jabberwalkin]

Ali overated?...

To say that Tyson would have knocked out Ali has to be based reality in order for there to be truth to the assumption. I say there is no truth to the assumption. You say it's all about styles and ability - you are right in saying so. But, as I suggested already (in so many words), style and ability will carry you only so far.
Let's review my comparison of Marciano and Tyson: 'Iron Mike' had vastly superior ability and strength to Marciano. But the truth that time revealed was that Tyson was vastly inferior to the Rock in heart. The Rock, on the other hand was pretty well bereft of technical skill - an almost 'styleless' fighter. Yet heart was the essence of his style. That's why I believe that even Marciano could have beaten Tyson.
The *****s in Tyson's armor were evident early whenever he faced an opponent who did two things; refuse to cower from him and stick a stiff jab in his face. There was one notable fight in the late 80s that demonstrated this point. The name of the fighter escapes me, such was the state of the heavyweight division of the first part of the Tyson era (other than Spinks and Holmes - I dare you to call to mind any decent heavyweight he faced). But he kept Tyson at bay for eleven rounds or so. Tyson luckily (most would say it was only a matter of time) caught him.
Then came Razor Rud****, who had all the heart in the world but was somewhat lacking in ring intellect yet over endowed with a suspect chin. When hit hard by Tyson, he didn't have the sense to hang onto Tyson. But bless his soul, he further exposed Mike's weakness. Next stop James Buster Douglas - a gifted fighter who, despite those ample gifts, was nonetheless a 'bum.' But, oh what a bum!
All Buster needed was a cause and a need to honor his late mother. He dismantled Tyson that night in Tokyo. It was as if God wanted to make a point. For that one night James Buster Douglas was the total package and not the bum. Don't bother mentioning the 'long count' issues - those went both ways. One ought only to count the 'long'-term effect on Tyson. The 'king' was revealed in his new suit of clothes and oh, what a naked sight it was!
Tyson was destroyed by one defeat. It was like Humpty Dumpty and all the king's horses - well you know the rest..
All of the truly great fighters were forged into hardened steel by their defeats and setbacks. Tyson, sadly for him, never ever did. Go talk to Evander who knows the heart of Tyson as well as anyone who's ever faced him in the ring could.
Ali was a total package in and out of the ring. When you talk about eras, to some extent it helps to have actually lived through them. In my own case I grew up wactching the strange and mystical alchemist Ali recreate the world through boxing - he was a man of his time.
Finally, regarding the question of who beats who, the reason Ali is a sure bet in a battle against Tyson is precisely the fact that he faced every other big hitter - Liston, Frazier, Foreman and figured out how to beat them. Note this please: At the time, no one gave him a chance to beat each of these. Ali was able, intuitively, to decipher the divide between myth and legend. Ali was the embodiment of capital 'L' Legend - Tyson's 'Baddest Man on the Planet', in the end was no more than a transparent myth. I'll say it again, one has to carefully measure the intangibles - because the measure of a man's greatness is far more than physical strength and ability. Without heart and soul those are nothing. One can only guess at how many gifted bums panhandle the streets of NYC - every one of them has a hard-luck story to tell - it is in the end, the Naked City.

[- Evil -]

I conisder the fact i wasnt around in the Ali era to be an advantage because my opinons are formed from his fights and not his hype. Although i was alive during the Tyson era i still wasnt old enough to see the hype and my judgements are made only on his fights.

You mention the Liston fights but there's huge debate if the wins where fixed, IMO they cant be taken into account when talking up Ali's career.

Frasier- Ali was beaten by Frasier when they first fought, Ali did learn to beat the man but it was a learning progress.

It was also a learning progress against Norton.

And the rope a dope was a great plan, get beaten up and hope your opponent gets tired!! Foreman beat himself.

There's always the risk of Tyson fragile mind losing a fight for him, and i dont think its an impossible fight for Ali but i'd favour Tyson to win.

It just an opinion, we willl never know if i'm right or wrong.

P.s. your comment about Tyson having far superiour strength to Marciano is up for debabte, not a debate i'd take part in but Marciano is known as a freak in term of strength.

[jabberwalkin]

Right on Johnny! Ali beating Foreman showed why he is the greatest boxer of all time. Rope a dope has been adopted not only by other boxers, but by several other disciplines that has nothing to do with fighting. Ali's style transcend boxing and there lies his greatness.

Actually Johnny, it's the other way round - Jordon was the Ali of basketball. This isn't one of those Chicken/egg questions. Just history. Ali came first.

[jabberwalkin]

Ali...The Greatest

Actually, it was one of Tyson's handlers who made the comment about it being imppossible for him to hit as hard as he did. And yes, Marciano at 175 lbs, was, as I said, a beautiful freak of nature. Roberto Duran was called 'Fists of Stone' - when Marciano swung his hands were 5 lb sledgehammers. I marvelled at the famous Jersey Joe Walcott photo shot when I was ten.
But I reiterate, Tyson for better or worse has the mind of a schoolyard bully. stand up to him and he ain't never the same. That, my friend is inescapable.
On the Liston thing: Watch the the Clay-Liston fight tapes and tell me if Liston looked like a guy on a paid date with the canvas. He was trying to take Ali's head off. When he couldn't he quit.
On the issue of living through the era: It wasn't the hype. Ali, in phase one of his career, was poetry in motion. No one had ever seen such speed and agility in the heaveyweight division.
And it is witnessing what he accomplished with diminished skills that seals the deal on Ali's stature.
I've seen 40+ years of boxing history go by - I've come to know the difference between hype, hope and heros. Ali was and is the latter - he is 'The Greatest.'

[MGG]

Ali was not overated, just overhyped.
Ali was in too many fantastic battles with the best in his division.

[Mick Hucknall]

Actually, it was one of Tyson's handlers who made the comment about it being imppossible for him to hit as hard as he did. And yes, Marciano at 175 lbs, was, as I said, a beautiful freak of nature. Roberto Duran was called 'Fists of Stone' - when Marciano swung his hands were 5 lb sledgehammers. I marvelled at the famous Jersey Joe Walcott photo shot when I was ten.
But I reiterate, Tyson for better or worse has the mind of a schoolyard bully. stand up to him and he ain't never the same. That, my friend is inescapable.
On the Liston thing: Watch the the Clay-Liston fight tapes and tell me if Liston looked like a guy on a paid date with the canvas. He was trying to take Ali's head off. When he couldn't he quit.
On the issue of living through the era: It wasn't the hype. Ali, in phase one of his career, was poetry in motion. No one had ever seen such speed and agility in the heaveyweight division.
And it is witnessing what he accomplished with diminished skills that seals the deal on Ali's stature.
I've seen 40+ years of boxing history go by - I've come to know the difference between hype, hope and heros. Ali was and is the latter - he is 'The Greatest.'

Couldn't of put it any better!!!

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Frasier- Ali was beaten by Frasier when they first fought, Ali did learn to beat the man but it was a learning progress.

It was also a learning progress against Norton.

And the rope a dope was a great plan, get beaten up and hope your opponent gets tired!! Foreman beat himself.

this whole part of your post is based on a past his prime ali, do we need to write about a past his prime tyson (whose prime lasted like 3 days or so)? and how he lost to any great fighter he faced and had no learning process at all? oh yes he learned to bite...

No we don't need to.

Ali 1967 was arguably the fastest HW in boxing history (feet and hands), had one of the greatest chin in boxing history, one of the greatest jab in HW history, could frustrate his opponent physically by tieing him up (even big xtra-strong ppl like liston and foreman) and psychologically. Add to the above great stamina and you have quite a toolbox to defeat Tyson.

this is my opinion, what exactly do you mean by "prime Tyson had the physical abilitys to beat any heavyweight ever"

KO him? ali survived liston foreman and shavers and wa quite hard to hit in his prime

decision him? how exactly by out jabbing him? by sticking and moving faster than ali? by fighting on the inside where ali would tie him and lay on him?

I am curious