Vitali Klitschko vs Primo Carnera......... Who Wins?

[Die Antwoord]

Your entire post is full of Excuse after Excuse for Vitali's pitfalls... Stop making up exaggerated excuses to try to prove your hero to be a world-beater, he is not and never will be a world-beater..

Juan Carlos Gomez, Danny Williams & Chris Arreola are nothing but overweight Class C bums... Yanqui Diaz himself an overweight journeyman left Gomez break-dancing in the ring in less than 2 mins of the opening round... Samil Sam butchered Danny Williams far easier than what Vitali did and Williams was grossly overweight the night he fought Vitali, even Audley Harrison beat Williams... Arreola is a journeyman with very limited boxing ability who started crying in the ring... Yet you are claiming that these 3 bums are better than Max Baer, Jack Sharkey or Joe Louis.... You call into question the reach of Max Baer yet Baer was an awesome physical speciman with a near 50 inch chest measurement, fighters reach is nothing to do with how tall he stands, its measured from finger-tip to finger-tip across a fighters back.

You make Excuses for Vitali quitting against Chris Byrd with a shoulder injury, yet David Tua, Evander Holyfield and one or two others all suffered the same injury when fighting Cris Byrd but they never quit, they stook-it out to the final bell unlike Vitali.

Joe Louis is NOT the Hardest puncher in history - Louis is the BEST puncher in History.

Your theory that Bigger Taller Boxers punch harder is WRONG.. Tall fighters have to punch down which is a disadvantage against a smaller fighter who can punch up.

Jack Sharkey would murder Juan Carlos Gomez.

Vitali has never been knocked down because he has never fought any fighters rated above Class C other than an old Lewis, i am sure if he was to fight Class A opponents he would be tasting the canvas on a regular basis.

Your theory that Vitali missed 4yrs of his prime due to injuries again is not correct as many boxing fans thought at the time he announced his retirement that it was a deliberate ploy by Vitali so that he did not have to fight the top contenders like Rahman, McCall, Ruiz or Toney.... Vitali came back and fought mediocre fighters in Peter, Gomez, Arreola, Johnson & Sosnowski yet you are claiming them as world-beaters who are better than Jack Sharkey.

You said...." I kiind of wonder if Eastern Euro's didnt understand the importance of each match and viewed it similar to the amateur ranks".... laughable comment.

Vitali is no better than Primo Carnera yet Carnera is not a Top 20 rated Heavyweight Champion.

Wait so losing a fight makes you bad.

Joe Louis was KTFO by Max Schmeling a guy who if he fought in the 50's and beyond probably wouldnt have been allowed to fight professionally in the U.S. Gomez never once lost when he weighed under 200 lbs.

Jack Sharkey drew a 169 lbs Jimmy Walker. 169 lbs. He lost to Johnny Risko. KTFO by Quintin Romeo Rojas...whoever the hell that was. Lost to Bud Gormain.

Sharkey's record during the time he lost to Primo Carnera...2-5-1...oh yeah and one of the guys he beat...there name was "Unknown." So here you got a tiny guy, way past his prime, who had lost tons of times in his careers to straight bums...and you think that Carnera deserves credit for beating him?

So Gomez got TKO'ed one time...so he's bad. Good to know those are your qualifications.

Haha you think the shorter guy is at an advantage punching up. Have you ever boxed or ever been in a fight? Man you must think Paul Williams is the greatest fighter of all time, i mean being that tall and having to fight all those shorter guys with huge advantages against him.

So wait Tua and Evander had to get surgery for a torn rotator cuff after beating Byrd?

So now conspiracy theories are fact. "Many thought Vitali faked his injuries to avoid having to fight Ruiz or Toney?" Get out of here. How is this not trolling. How is this guy allowed to post here? Cite?

If I posted, "Ali refused to go to Vietnam because he wanted to get banned so he didnt have to fight Norton or Frazier" I would be banned. This is ridiculous. So Vitali was having surgeries and schedulign fights for the fun of it. And he came back to fight undefeated fighters...because he was afraid to figth John Ruiz...Your logic is some of the dumbest nonsense I have ever read.

Jack Sharkey would murder Gomez? Really? Last I checked Gomez never lost to anyone even close to Sharkey's size, was a champion with 9 title defenses at cruiser.

A fighter your size throwing straights and upper cuts will hit harder than the same fighter if he is shorter....God, this guy really said you hit harder throwing up at a taller opponent...dear god. Defies physics, logic, common sense...everything.

I think its weird that reaches have shrunk over the years in boxing whereas in every other sport theyve increased. Its common to see a 6'7 African American with a 7'2 wingspan in basketball...which you never saw 50 years ago, but in boxing 6'2 Max Baer had the same reach as Rid**** Bowe? I dont believe it. I can look at the guys and see. Reach isnt the crucial element though, but still I think its funny the height to reach ratios are actually lower today.

Watch Vitali against Byrd he doesnt even care. Hes standing in the ring fine talking to Merchant, using an interpreter and hes just confused. He's like "dont worry, Ill get my belt back." It wasnt a big deal to him. See when he fights Lewis how he reacts. You can tell that mattered to him then. Either Vitali didnt understand the gravity of the situation or he became a different person.

Lets have Vitali take on Andre Ward and see how he does. Will you respect him if he beats the best super middleweight, something Jack Sharkey wasnt able to do?

[sonnyboyx2]

Once again nothing other than your playground theory of "my brother is bigger than your brother"..

Why would Max Shmeling not be aloud to fight during the 50s in the USA?
Juan Calos Gomez lost to a guy who had only boxed 11 pro fights with a total of 39rds boxed as a professional, the other fighters he beat had a combine record of 85-69-7 a bunch of tomato cans.

Yes both Tua & Evander underwent shoulder surgury after fighting Chris Byrd.

Nothing weird like you claim about boxers reaches having shrunk over the last few decades.. Fighters today are not in the physical shape that they was back then, Todays fighters are far to heavy which makes them heavy legged and they have very little punching power compaired to the fighters from other era's because they have little snap on their punches, they also find it difficult to rally in the later rounds unlike Holmes vs Norton, Ali vs Wepner, Ali vs Frazier (3), Louis vs Conn, Willard vs Johnson... which is all down to them carrying far to much weight and being badly conditioned.. Danny Williams weighed 270lbs against Vitali Klitschko then 6 fights later he weighed 228lbs against unbeaten Scott Gammer and put in an excellent performance.

Yes its better to be punching up rather than punching down, punching power comes from the back of a fighters legs not his biceps so when a fighter punches up he can bend his knees and get maximum leverage into his punches something you cannot do when punching down, it is also more difficult to move on the ball of your foot when punching down, Vitali has been "labelled" as Robotic as he seems to have his feet nailed to the canvas and only throws arm-punches but this is because he always has to punch downwards.

Max Baer had the same reach as Rid**** Bowe because Max Baer was a tremendous physical speciman with a fantastic V-Shape physique of small waist massive shoulders and V-shape back which is something you never see in todays boxing.

Paul Williams - nah i dont rate him too highly

Vitali you claim was not concerned against Chris Byrd - laughable

Vitali against the best Super-Middleweight could easily have happened only the Super-Middleweight got fed-up of calling both brothers out but they both refused to accept his challenge.. My money would have been on James Toney

[Die Antwoord]

Once again nothing other than your playground theory of "my brother is bigger than your brother"..

Why would Max Shmeling not be aloud to fight during the 50s in the USA?
Juan Calos Gomez lost to a guy who had only boxed 11 pro fights with a total of 39rds boxed as a professional, the other fighters he beat had a combine record of 85-69-7 a bunch of tomato cans.

Yes both Tua & Evander underwent shoulder surgury after fighting Chris Byrd.

Nothing weird like you claim about boxers reaches having shrunk over the last few decades.. Fighters today are not in the physical shape that they was back then, Todays fighters are far to heavy which makes them heavy legged and they have very little punching power compaired to the fighters from other era's because they have little snap on their punches, they also find it difficult to rally in the later rounds unlike Holmes vs Norton, Ali vs Wepner, Ali vs Frazier (3), Louis vs Conn, Willard vs Johnson... which is all down to them carrying far to much weight and being badly conditioned.. Danny Williams weighed 270lbs against Vitali Klitschko then 6 fights later he weighed 228lbs against unbeaten Scott Gammer and put in an excellent performance.

Yes its better to be punching up rather than punching down, punching power comes from the back of a fighters legs not his biceps so when a fighter punches up he can bend his knees and get maximum leverage into his punches something you cannot do when punching down, it is also more difficult to move on the ball of your foot when punching down, Vitali has been "labelled" as Robotic as he seems to have his feet nailed to the canvas and only throws arm-punches but this is because he always has to punch downwards.

Max Baer had the same reach as Rid**** Bowe because Max Baer was a tremendous physical speciman with a fantastic V-Shape physique of small waist massive shoulders and V-shape back which is something you never see in todays boxing.

Paul Williams - nah i dont rate him too highly

Vitali you claim was not concerned against Chris Byrd - laughable

Vitali against the best Super-Middleweight could easily have happened only the Super-Middleweight got fed-up of calling both brothers out but they both refused to accept his challenge.. My money would have been on James Toney

Depending on which side of Germany Schmeling was from he wouldnt have been allowed to box int he pros over in the U.S. He got his freedom though and made a fortune from Coke, a few years later he might not have been so lucky. How many Eastern Euros were allowed to fight professionally during the cold war.

Vitali couldnt even care about the Byrd fight. Just watch himt alking. Is he upset or crying or anything. Hes just like, "im hurt, I dont want to fight right now and risk further injury. I can just come back and beat him." He just didnt care. Merchant asked, "you could have just stood there, why didnt you do that." Vitali looks at him like hes an idiot and he says "I wouldnt have won the rounds." Vitali approached that fight like it was an amateur contest or like a kickboxing even etc... I dont think he understood that in boxing if you lose for any reason, haters will talk trash about you.

Tua had more punching power than anyone you mentioned and Tua was fat as hell. Same with Briggs who had more KO 1's than Shavers.

If Ali rallied to beat Wepner...then Wlad rallied even better to beat Peter. And Sam Peter>>>>>Chuck Wepner.

Baer aint the only one. Primo Carnera's reach is supposedly 4'' longer than Bowe's? I dont buy it at all. I can view them with my eyes. Larger than Klitschko's want to talk about perfect physcial specimens...

[sonnyboyx2]

Depending on which side of Germany Schmeling was from he wouldnt have been allowed to box int he pros over in the U.S. He got his freedom though and made a fortune from Coke, a few years later he might not have been so lucky. How many Eastern Euros were allowed to fight professionally during the cold war.

Vitali couldnt even care about the Byrd fight. Just watch himt alking. Is he upset or crying or anything. Hes just like, "im hurt, I dont want to fight right now and risk further injury. I can just come back and beat him." He just didnt care. Merchant asked, "you could have just stood there, why didnt you do that." Vitali looks at him like hes an idiot and he says "I wouldnt have won the rounds." Vitali approached that fight like it was an amateur contest or like a kickboxing even etc... I dont think he understood that in boxing if you lose for any reason, haters will talk trash about you.

Tua had more punching power than anyone you mentioned and Tua was fat as hell. Same with Briggs who had more KO 1's than Shavers.

If Ali rallied to beat Wepner...then Wlad rallied even better to beat Peter. And Sam Peter>>>>>Chuck Wepner.

Baer aint the only one. Primo Carnera's reach is supposedly 4'' longer than Bowe's? I dont buy it at all. I can view them with my eyes. Larger than Klitschko's want to talk about perfect physcial specimens...

you are so funny and deluded.. everything in your post is `made-up rubbish`... you are now questioning the size of Primo Carnera which goes to show that you know absolutely nothing about boxing history or about Carnera who was without doubt the largest most powerfully built physical speciman in all of boxing history, Primo Carnera makes Vitali Klitschko look like a fcukin stick insect..

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...w=1432&bih=570

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...w=1432&bih=570

[TheGreatA]

Carnera's reach is made longer by his wide shoulders and huge hands. Out of all the heavyweight champions, he was probably measured the most times, as it was part of his "attraction" as a fighter, so his measurements are about the most accurate.

[Die Antwoord]

you are so funny and deluded.. everything in your post is `made-up rubbish`... you are now questioning the size of Primo Carnera which goes to show that you know absolutely nothing about boxing history or about Carnera who was without doubt the largest most powerfully built physical speciman in all of boxing history, Primo Carnera makes Vitali Klitschko look like a fcukin stick insect..

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...w=1432&bih=570

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...w=1432&bih=570

Is this guy on drugs? He thinks Carnera was taller than Vitali. "Primo Carnera was legittimately measured by an American doctor at exactly 6'5" 3/4 (about 1.96). ..." Vitali Klitschko is 6'8. Hes over 2 inches taller than Carnera. What the hell is this guy talking about? How can you even debate someone who thinks Cleveland Williams is taller than Vitali Klitschko or that Carnera would make Vitali look small?

[sonnyboyx2]

Is this guy on drugs? He thinks Carnera was taller than Vitali. "Primo Carnera was legittimately measured by an American doctor at exactly 6'5" 3/4 (about 1.96). ..." Vitali Klitschko is 6'8. Hes over 2 inches taller than Carnera. What the hell is this guy talking about? How can you even debate someone who thinks Cleveland Williams is taller than Vitali Klitschko or that Carnera would make Vitali look small?

Carnera was 6ft 6 and one half inch tall

[sonnyboyx2]

Is this guy on drugs? He thinks Carnera was taller than Vitali. "Primo Carnera was legittimately measured by an American doctor at exactly 6'5" 3/4 (about 1.96). ..." Vitali Klitschko is 6'8. Hes over 2 inches taller than Carnera. What the hell is this guy talking about? How can you even debate someone who thinks Cleveland Williams is taller than Vitali Klitschko or that Carnera would make Vitali look small?

i have never said Williams was taller than Klitschko.. Williams is bigger than Klitschko that i am sure of, and who gives a fhuck wether Vitali is an inch or more taller than Carnera.. Carnera would fold up Vitali and wipe his fhuckin arse with him you clown now fhuck off your nothing but a boxrec geek, go and kiss your poster of Nicolay Valuev.

[Die Antwoord]

i have never said Williams was taller than Klitschko.. Williams is bigger than Klitschko that i am sure of, and who gives a fhuck wether Vitali is an inch or more taller than Carnera.. Carnera would fold up Vitali and wipe his fhuckin arse with him you clown now fhuck off your nothing but a boxrec geek, go and kiss your poster of Nicolay Valuev.

Cleveland williams is bigger than Vitali? In the last 11 years Vitali hasnt weighed under 244 lbs. Hes never had fat on him, never been out of shape, is pure mass. Before being shot, Cleveland Williams never weighed over 215 lbs. How is he bigger than Vitali? He is at best 30 lbs lighter than him, but usually more like 40. Do you mean the end of his career when a fat, gimp version of Cleveland Williams would show up to the ring around 230 and never fight anyone of any note?

[Die Antwoord]

Carnera was 6ft 6 and one half inch tall

Cite. Cite one thing that says that.