More Skilled, Hagler Or De La Hoya?

[wmute]

the theory is rather very easy,oscar had faster hands,better foot movement,was able to read opponents and adjust his game plan accordingly,oscar fought a group of fighters much more talented than the group marvin fought,remember oscar did this at many different weight classes,

The bold is the only part of your post pertaining to skills. The rest is talent and resume. Hagler is not a smart fighter. Oscar does not shine either, when did he do good adjustments?. Only time I can think of is when he stopped trying to fight like Mayweather in the Vargas fight. But that was moslty recovering from something he was ****ing up big time.

Not to mention... Better foot movement???

[wmute]

Oscar was one of the most talented fighters of the last 30 years. From his jab to his devastating left hook, his mid range skills, his ability to mix it up on the inside and come out on top, and his ability to go 12 rounds. There weren't many fighters who could outbox Oscar for 12 rounds - not even Tito. Oscar had a very easy time outboxing him and with bad advice from his corner decided to try to coast to a victory which cost him dearly in his first loss.

He had lots of speed, lots of power, great footwork, awesome style and the stamina to win big in the championship rounds, ie his 11 rd KO of Fernando Vargas.

Let's also not forget where Oscar started his career and finished it - he fought everybody there was to fight aside from Winky Wright, but that fight would have ****** anyway as Winky is one of the most painful fighters to watch.

I'm not hating on Marvin Hagler, I just think Oscar had a skillset slightly higher than his.

ok first off. Talent and skills are two different things.

Back to single points.

You name jab+hook. Hagler got them too.

You name mid range. Hagler got that too.

You name inside. Hagler owns Oscar on the inside, it's not even close. +1 Hagler

Oscar ability to last 12 rounds did not last very long. It was gone before he was 30. Hagler could fight 15 all through his career. +1 Hagler

Oscar is faster. That much I will give you. +1 Oscar

Unclear who has power out of the two.

Oscar does not have great footwork. Great footwork is when you are not gasping for air after running around. Hagler moved around the ring, without getting tired, all of this while switching and being effective at it. +1 Hagler

You forgot to mention Oscar has poor upper body movement. (Both head and torso) Hagler was much better at making people miss on the spot. +1 Hagler

Oscar does not have much of a defense besides blocking. (I already mentioned this above)

Awesome style means nothing, it is just opinion. Personally when I see Oscar being all jittery around the ring, I get pissed off and think what went wrong there, because he DID have the talent (power, speed, chin), it's exactly the skills he was lacking.

The stamina like I said was gone before he was 30... I would not bring it once, much less twice when comparing to a guy who fought 15 rounds at 30 like he did at 20.

Hagler 4 - Oscar 1

[them_apples]

How about someone explains this interesting theory

lol co sign

[them_apples]

ok first off. Talent and skills are two different things.

Back to single points.

You name jab+hook. Hagler got them too.

You name mid range. Hagler got that too.

You name inside. Hagler owns Oscar on the inside, it's not even close. +1 Hagler

Oscar ability to last 12 rounds did not last very long. It was gone before he was 30. Hagler could fight 15 all through his career. +1 Hagler

Oscar is faster. That much I will give you. +1 Oscar

Unclear who has power out of the two.

Oscar does not have great footwork. Great footwork is when you are not gasping for air after running around. Hagler moved around the ring, without getting tired, all of this while switching and being effective at it. +1 Hagler

You forgot to mention Oscar has poor upper body movement. (Both head and torso) Hagler was much better at making people miss on the spot. +1 Hagler

Oscar does not have much of a defense besides blocking. (I already mentioned this above)

Awesome style means nothing, it is just opinion. Personally when I see Oscar being all jittery around the ring, I get pissed off and think what went wrong there, because he DID have the talent (power, speed, chin), it's exactly the skills he was lacking.

The stamina like I said was gone before he was 30... I would not bring it once, much less twice when comparing to a guy who fought 15 rounds at 30 like he did at 20.

Hagler 4 - Oscar 1

I don't where you got your idea on good foot work bro. Good footwork is based on how well fighter A can set himself up to land at the end of his punches as opposed to fighter B.

Boxing is a constant battle of finding you're range which is why quick feet is a vital asset. You have to constantly adjust your positioning to assure the best punching possible (aka falling short or having smothered punches). Some of it is timing some of it athleticism. That said, Oscar had great footwork, I'd call it even, possible even in Oscars favor.

Hagler get's the punching power, better chin, better stamina, longer reach, and yeah, more skill on the inside and outside.

[mrboxer]

The bold is the only part of your post pertaining to skills. The rest is talent and resume. Hagler is not a smart fighter. Oscar does not shine either, when did he do good adjustments?. Only time I can think of is when he stopped trying to fight like Mayweather in the Vargas fight. But that was moslty recovering from something he was ****ing up big time.

Not to mention... Better foot movement???

that is the only part i wanted in the post to make my point,i am glad you were able to figure it out and agree with me 100%

[wmute]

I don't where you got your idea on good foot work bro. Good footwork is based on how well fighter A can set himself up to land at the end of his punches as opposed to fighter B.

Boxing is a constant battle of finding you're range which is why quick feet is a vital asset. You have to constantly adjust your positioning to assure the best punching possible (aka falling short or having smothered punches). Some of it is timing some of it athleticism. That said, Oscar had great footwork, I'd call it even, possible even in Oscars favor.

Hagler get's the punching power, better chin, better stamina, longer reach, and yeah, more skill on the inside and outside.

If you keep jumping around, and after 6 rounds you can hardly do it anymore, that is not good footwork. To cite a recent example. Would you say Cotto footwork was good against Margarito? He could position himself for landing combos for a few round, and for a few of those rounds also evade payback. But he wasted sooo much movement while doing it.

To be honest Oscar has been sort of like that for most of his career, he had a good idea of where to be, but was not economical about it all. Hence I do not rate his footwork particularly high. The way Pea made him look, also does not bode too well for my evaluation of his footwork.

The only time I saw Hagler in trouble because of inability be in the right range was in the Leonard fight.

In his earlier fights, he showed great footwork, he was finding the right range while moving forward and backward, using his deceptive reach in an almost perfect way.

[wmute]

that is the only part i wanted in the post to make my point,i am glad you were able to figure it out and agree with me 100%

any examples of oscar making these phantomatic adjustments? the way you talk about him, one would think he is like a Hopkins or Mayweather Jr.

[wmute]

ok first off. Talent and skills are two different things.

Back to single points.

You name jab+hook. Hagler got them too.

You name mid range. Hagler got that too.

You name inside. Hagler owns Oscar on the inside, it's not even close. +1 Hagler

Oscar ability to last 12 rounds did not last very long. It was gone before he was 30. Hagler could fight 15 all through his career. +1 Hagler

Oscar is faster. That much I will give you. +1 Oscar

Unclear who has power out of the two.

Oscar does not have great footwork. Great footwork is when you are not gasping for air after running around. Hagler moved around the ring, without getting tired, all of this while switching and being effective at it. +1 Hagler

You forgot to mention Oscar has poor upper body movement. (Both head and torso) Hagler was much better at making people miss on the spot. +1 Hagler

Oscar does not have much of a defense besides blocking. (I already mentioned this above)

Awesome style means nothing, it is just opinion. Personally when I see Oscar being all jittery around the ring, I get pissed off and think what went wrong there, because he DID have the talent (power, speed, chin), it's exactly the skills he was lacking.

The stamina like I said was gone before he was 30... I would not bring it once, much less twice when comparing to a guy who fought 15 rounds at 30 like he did at 20.

Hagler 4 - Oscar 1

I just realized that speed and stamina are not skills.

The tally should read 3-0 instead of 4-1.

[mrboxer]

it seems that most members are on the same page on this,i think that this proves by unanimous decision that oscar was more skilled,

[-MAKAVELLI-]

you have got to be f'n kidding me