Greatest Light-Heavyweights?

[Willie Pep 229]

According to The Boxing Register, " Baroudi's death affected Charles deeply, and observers saw a change in his style from that point on. Although he was criticized for being too conservative, Charles no longer possessed the desire to finish off his opponents in the manner which had earned him the nickname, "The Cincinnati Cobra."

That was one of my sources for my post about Ezzard Charles. I think that I read something about that somewhere else too.

Read the P.S. first!

Apologists . . . the game has always been filled with them. You can find the same press rhetoric and the same boxer quotes after every ring death.

If a man is truly moved by what occured he quits fighting. They never quit; if you're not just plain mean to begin with you're not in this business; but when it happens everyone always makes the right noise so everyone can feel better about it.

Bob Dylan does a nice job calling it BS in Who Killed Davy Moore.

Apologists!

P.S. I recognize you are new to the forum so I hope you don't mind me riding you a little. I never doubted that you were speaking from knowledge your opinion is the conventional wisdom, for Charles and all fighters who have survived the tragedy. I'm just not on board, I'm with Bob Dylan.

[QueensburyRules]

Of course, Charles was not so good later in his career when he was clearly over the hill. Besides, who knows when the ALS started to affect his boxing.

His KO"s after the Baroudi fight were mostly against boxers that were not so good. He took some easy fights leading up to his first fight with Walcott.

I believe he was the best light heavyweight. Who do you think was better?

- -Put it a known context:

The Great Lou Gehrig had a pact with his wife to retire by middle 30s, I forget the exact number, but extended it because of the silly $$$ he was making as the top 1st baseman in MLB history. In his last full year beyond the expected traditional athletic decline, his stats decllned some 20% and the washed up rumors began. Thing is by Run Production %, he was still producing over 90% of prime 1st basemen in history, so when he returned the next year, the fall from the ALS precipice was dramatic as he gamely tried to play through having no balance, coordination, or strength whatsoever to retire holding the Iron Man record until Ripken Jr managed the feat. Held the Grand Slam record until ARod who played umpteen years longer in the postage stamp ball parks of today finally broke that record.

When Ez was in his 9 title run at a weight above his best, he was still in full flow of his prime, good enough to school young Cassius on the ABCs of a 15 round title fight and his comp was similar to Ali's first run with the exception of Terrell who was at his peak when Ali beat him. After a brutal session with Jersey Joe, most fighters retire after a few farewell bouts, but Ez plugged on and near TKOed young Rocky in one of the best fights that can be had in history. Following the timeline, he clearly falls off as could be expected with someone with such a dynamic record and clearly AlS can be seen as part of that decline.

Ibro ranks him #1 LH with Archie, Michael Spinks, and Tunney very close behind and that sounds about right to me and he's high in the P4P rankings as well though dropping in heavy ratings.

[The Old LefHook]

Tunney, Loughran and Rosenbloom were the best light heavies, closely followed by Fitz and Conn.

[Rockybigblower]

What about these guys?

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[Willie Pep 229]

Tunney, Loughran and Rosenbloom were the best light heavies, closely followed by Fitz and Conn.

I think Spinks would have been a difficult fight for all five if them, but may also have lost to all five. I think Spinks deserves to be on anyone's list even if at the bottom.

Many will be surprised if they check out Slapsie Maxie on Boxrec.

LOL Sure doesn't fit my KO theory of greatness - 209 wins 19 KOs but no 'doubt' great!

[billeau2]

I think Spinks would have been a difficult fight for all five if them, but may also have lost to all five. I think Spinks deserves to be on anyone's list even if at the bottom.

Many will be surprised if they check out Slapsie Maxie on Boxrec.

LOL Sure doesn't fit my KO theory of greatness - 209 wins 19 KOs but no 'doubt' great!

You have to understand why. maxie Rosenbloom had a philosophy about boxing. He had no desire to cause one, or to be the reciepient of harm. it sounds silly, but he deliberately fought in a manner where he was "Slapsie Maxie" vis a vis, he had no intention of trying to KO his opponent(s). By all accounts he could have KOed a lot more guys. Some of the great ***ish fighters had a philosophical problem with the object of a boxing match to "punish." Bauer, who might have been ***ish, held back after being responsible for at least one death in the ring... Mendoza was dedicated to a scientific approach to pugalism... even Chrythansium Joe... was more enticed by technical perfection than savagery. And there was Rosenbloom. Of course this was not only ***ish fighters... Charles apparently held back after a man died in a fight with him.

[QueensburyRules]

- -Arthur Pelkey the most dramatic case of a fighter being destroyed mentally, physically, and career after the trauma of the Luck McCarty fight.

[cfang]

Charles defo the best. L heavy ever. He beat a prime moore 3/3

[Willie Pep 229]

Charles defo the best. L heavy ever. He beat a prime moore 3/3

Other than defeating Moore (3) what did he accomplish as a LHW?

Is it different to say he is the best fighter who campaigned for a while at LHW from saying he is the best LHW (GOAT)? The former I can understand, the latter seems diminished by . . .

he campaigned for four years in the division of a 19 year career. Fought 25 times in the division out of 120 fight career. Never held the LHW title or a claim, as best I can see.

It seems your argument is well supported by a H2H evaluation but leaves out all the other criteria usually associated with these debates.

[TBear]

Many Light heavies historically are rated by their accomplishments at heavyweight. I imagine some of the names would be rearranged if this was based on their accomplishments at light heavywt. only.