The Perfect Boxer

[NChristo]

Taking a while to do so I'll just post what I've got so far and edit as I go along, will probably change a few too.

Tools:

* Durability -Battling Nelson
* Hand Speed - Meldrick Taylor
* Foot Speed - Muhammad Ali
* Reflexes - Roy Jones Jr
* Size & Build -
* Stamina - Rocky Marciano
* Athleticism - Roy Jones Jr
* Overall Talent - Eder Jofre

Skills:

* Head Movement -
* Body Movement - Pernell Whitaker
* Footwork -
* Defense - Nicolino Locche
* Ring Generalship - Carlos Monzon
* Body Punching - Carlos Palomino
* Balance - Pernell Whitaker
* Longevity - Archie Moore
* Use of Reach Advantage - Tommy Hearns
* Use of Height Advantage -


Styles:

* Boxing Ability
* Swarming Ability - Joe Frazier
* Slugging Ability - George Foreman
* In-Fighting Ability - Roberto Duran
* Mid-Range Ability - Joe Louis
* Long-Range Ability - Thomas Hearns
* Counterpunching Ability - Wilfred Benitez


Punching and Dodging:

* Overall Strength -
* One-Punch Power - Julian Jackson
* General Punch Power -
* Accuracy - Joe Louis
* Timing -
* Straightness of Punches - Alexis Arguello
* Variety of Offensive Arsenal - Sugar Ray Robinson
* Dodging - Nicolino Locche


Punches:

* Left Hook - Joe Frazier
* Right Hook - Marvin Hagler
* Left Cross
* Right Cross
* Left Straight
* Right Straight - Tommy Hearns
* Overhand - Tim Witherspoon
* Uppercut - Rid**** Bowe
* Jab - Sonny Liston


Mental:

* Mental Strength -
* Chin - Marvin Hagler
* Endurance -
* Heart - Joe Frazier
* Desire -
* Killer Instinct - Joe Louis
* Work Rate -
* Intimidation - Sonny Liston
* Consistency -
* Hard Training - Marvin Hagler
* Conditioning - Ken Norton
* Mental Game -
* Game Planning - Sugar Ray Leonard
* Trainer Bonus -


Extras:

* Pre-Fight Mind Games - Muhammad Ali
* In-Fight Mind Games - Jack Johnson
* Media Savvy - Chris Eubank (lol)
* Charisma - Sugar Ray Leonard

* PPV Buys - Muhammad Ali

Edited .
Added a few names + your new options.

[GameGod]

Edited .
Added a few names + your new options.

Thanks. Just to mention, my new options were actually mostly "Mental" ones, but which category you have them in doesn't really matter. Anyway, thanks again for adding the new names.

For Use of Reach Advantage, I would really have to go with Paul Williams (although Hearns is your choice). With normal-sized arms, it is my belief that Williams would be a street bum who had once tried professional boxing, got KO'ed in 1 round and ended up with a record of 2 wins (0 KOs) and 16 losses (14 KOs) against debutants and fellow bums. It is simply because of his freakishly long arms that he can dominate: if you watch him, you will see that he doesn't really have good speed, he has below average power, and no skill at all. Yet he is a highly effective Junior Middleweight ...

Of course, your names and choices are good as well. I'm sure that, as different people, we would differ on many of them (but also agree on many); that one just happened to catch my eye when I was looking at the new categories.

Also, what do you think of me adding fields outside the fighter's immediate control but which do effect their careers and statuses, such as Adversary (who the fighters' great opponents, which help them define their greatness, are - e.g. for Ali, there was Frazier and Foreman; just give the one fighter of all-time P4P who you would call the best "adversary" and put him here), Trainer (the best trainer of all-time), etc.?

[NChristo]

For Use of Reach Advantage, I would really have to go with Paul Williams (although Hearns is your choice). With normal-sized arms, it is my belief that Williams would be a street bum who had once tried professional boxing, got KO'ed in 1 round and ended up with a record of 2 wins (0 KOs) and 16 losses (14 KOs) against debutants and fellow bums. It is simply because of his freakishly long arms that he can dominate: if you watch him, you will see that he doesn't really have good speed, he has below average power, and no skill at all. Yet he is a highly effective Junior Middleweight ...

I have to strongly disagree here, I don't think Williams uses his height to his advantage at all, one of the reasons I chose Hearns is because of the display he put on against Duran who is one of the best in fighters of all time, he controlled him and kept him at a comfortable distance untill that brutal k.o, Williams is happy to let people on his inside which puts his reach at a disadvantage, he's far too wild and it doesn't work for his reach at all imo.

Also, what do you think of me adding fields outside the fighter's immediate control but which do effect their careers and statuses, such as Adversary (who the fighters' great opponents, which help them define their greatness, are - e.g. for Ali, there was Frazier and Foreman; just give the one fighter of all-time P4P who you would call the best "adversary" and put him here), Trainer (the best trainer of all-time), etc.?

Sure, the more the merrier I suppose.


I've corrected the order of options so it's not so confusing :P.

[GameGod]

I have to strongly disagree here, I don't think Williams uses his height to his advantage at all, one of the reasons I chose Hearns is because of the display he put on against Duran who is one of the best in fighters of all time, he controlled him and kept him at a comfortable distance untill that brutal k.o, Williams is happy to let people on his inside which puts his reach at a disadvantage, he's far too wild and it doesn't work for his reach at all imo.

OK, I suppose when it comes to specific categories you will have your opinions and I will have mine - no people will ever get perfect matches. My choices would just be in my opinion - I'm not trying to spread them as gospel truth, everyone has their own opinions.

Sure, the more the merrier I suppose.


I've corrected the order of options so it's not so confusing :P.

Thanks for correcting the options, and I'll go and add those extra categories.

[BigStereotype]

Thanks, you're the first person to give an answer for every category although you didn't attempt the seperate punch categories. For the Post-1960s era, these are solid choices, although mine date back to about 1920 (Dempsey and later); I don't really rate people before that because I believe that before that Boxing was genuinely evolving at a fast rate, while there has been less of that in the last 40 years or so. Therefore, Jack Johnson wouldn't stand a chance against modern-day Heavyweights, but Joe Louis could beat most or all of them.

I think boxing was advancing too quickly technically before maybe 1940 to really judge those fighters their modern-day counterparts. It's a different cut-off point, but the same idea. Any specific categories where you guys disagree?

[NChristo]

I think boxing was advancing too quickly technically before maybe 1940 to really judge those fighters their modern-day counterparts. It's a different cut-off point, but the same idea. Any specific categories where you guys disagree?

Durability and In-fight mind games are the only ones where I chose someone pre-1940, the main reasons being that Battling Nelson went 42 rounds with Joe Gans after getting his ass handed to him the whole fight and even after getting knocked down three times early (8th and 15th round I think, can't remember the 3rd will have to look it up) + it was in searing heat in excess of 100 degrees. He was bleeding out of every place possible yet never gave up on his assault.
(Reportedly started bleeding out his ears in round 2)
I don't see any boxer doing that again, seems inhuman.

Jack Johnson for in-fight mind games should speak for itself.

[BigStereotype]

Yeah, that's the only spot where I'd probably give an edge to an earlier-era fighter. Those guys were ****ing tough.

[TheMagicMan]

joe calzaghe...next question.