Jersey Joe Walcott thread.

[frankenfrank]

Woops! That fight makes many peoples top 10 for entertaining heavyweight title fights!!

See if you can watch the Big Fights Inc film of the fight. Its the best footage I've seen of it and looks terrific.

One of my favorite Walcott fights is the second fight with Joe Louis......ok Walcott loses by an 11th round KO but is absolutely masterful beforehand.

The sixth round title win over Charles is a goodie too! His lefthook / uppercut was superb and only travelled what seemed a few inches. De la Hoya had a similar punch, I think he used to call it his '45 punch'.

Recently I saw a fight when the trainer told his fighter to use the '45' , not sure if it was Guinn vs. Grant , Tua vs. someone , Cooper vs. someone , or even something else , but Oscar Delahoya was definitely not involved.

[Sugarj]

Hi Frankenfrank,

When I say that Jones, Hopkins and Toney 'cite' Walcott as an 'influence' it is because I have seen/read interviews where these three fighters actually claim Walcott influenced their styles. I'm not just picking random fighters who I think fight a bit like Jersey Joe. Ha ha!

This does not mean that they are carbon copies of Jersey Joe, just that certain elements/moves may well have been studied, worked on or brought into their respective styles.

I can see elements of Jersey Joe's style in all of their games........hell I've studied all three of them for the best part of two decades. Remember....... Jones once had footwork, Toney once had a respectable waistline and Hopkins didn't always fight dirty.

All three of these fighters have been pound for pound amongst the best pound for pound boxers in the world and all have been fantastic orthodox technicians like Walcott.

As for the '45' punch.............. of course, many boxers use it, Oscar spoke proudly of how he used it in his style and Walcott was an excellent exponent of it too.

[boxing boy]

Stylistically Jersey Joe is one of my favorite heavyweights ever. So graceful, so stylish. Great punch power in either hand, great movement and footwork, handspeed and combinations.

As a technician, Bernhard Hopkins, Roy Jones and James Toney cite him as an influence.

He was unlucky to have lost the first decision to Joe Louis and came so so close to beating Marciano were it not for that Suzie-Q.

I dont think we ever got to see a prime Walcott. Judging from his performances in his mid to late 30s he could have been amazing in his 20s were it not for the times.

Muhammad Ali also cited Walcott as an influence.

Most people do not know Muhammad Ali got the "Ali shuffle" from Jersey Joe Walcott. He copied the shuffle from Walcott.

[Sugarj]

Very true BoxingBoy. The Walcott shift with a few more 'reps' was very similar to the Ali shuffle.

And there were times when Walcott's dancing and jabbing was poetry in motion, he and Ali were easily the two best heavyweight exponents in dancing and jabbing. No suprise that Ali was a fan.

[T.Horton]

So far I've learned a lot, thanks guys!

[frankenfrank]

Hi Frankenfrank,

When I say that Jones, Hopkins and Toney 'cite' Walcott as an 'influence' it is because I have seen/read interviews where these three fighters actually claim Walcott influenced their styles. I'm not just picking random fighters who I think fight a bit like Jersey Joe. Ha ha!

This does not mean that they are carbon copies of Jersey Joe, just that certain elements/moves may well have been studied, worked on or brought into their respective styles.

I can see elements of Jersey Joe's style in all of their games........hell I've studied all three of them for the best part of two decades. Remember....... Jones once had footwork, Toney once had a respectable waistline and Hopkins didn't always fight dirty.

All three of these fighters have been pound for pound amongst the best pound for pound boxers in the world and all have been fantastic orthodox technicians like Walcott.

As for the '45' punch.............. of course, many boxers use it, Oscar spoke proudly of how he used it in his style and Walcott was an excellent exponent of it too.

They can site whomever they want , the only one that might have meant this is Toney , whom does not fight like Walcott whatever he meant.
Hopkins fought dirty against Glen Johnson (holding and hitting) and against Dennis Milton (holding and hitting , pushing , butting) , maybe Hopkins became even dirtier since then (added faking) but he was always dirty and his and Jones' styles really have nothing to do with Walcott's.
And Toney's waistline has nothing to do with his style which , as I explained doesn't remind Walcott's (but is still closer than the other 2's).
Jones was never a technician , and being such doesn't make one a Walcott reminiscent.

[Sugarj]

Granted, Hopkins has had nights when he has fought dirty. He has also had nights when he has boxed technically and very cleanly, check out the De La Hoya fight, the Trinidad fight, Joppy, Eastman, even the Pavlik fight for some excellent boxing. But for what its worth Hopkin's dirty tactics have nothing to do with Walcott. But as for some of Hopkins wily, slippery defensive moves..........its possible to draw parallels.

But in comparing styles, try to look beyond the obvious. Watch how Roy Jones can pull back from a right cross and counter with his own, or slip a jab and hook with the left, these sort of moves were mastered by many old masters in the Walcott/Archie Moore/Ray Robinson sense.

Jersey Joe was excellent at feinting, it can be difficult for those who haven't boxed or even sparred to watch for the subtle signs, or the way he drew taller fighters onto his right cross. Side steps were another thing he did well, prime Toney used many of these tricks too.

But I am a little concerned that you dont think Jones was ever a technician. His defense tended to rely on reflex and his hands were often held low but he was a superb technician with a solid amateur pedigree. He just lacked/or grew out of using basic defensive fundamentals that may have served him well when his reflexes started to erode. Prime Roy Jones was a technical masterclass, a lesson in orthodox combination punching, countering, fighting off the ropes and in footwork. Oh and Walcott was notorious for relying on reflexes and having his hands lower than they should have been too! Are you going to say that Walcott wasn't a technician now?

There were times when Roy Jones looked very similar to Walcott. The Vinny Pazienza fight comes to mind, when Roy danced on his toes around poor Vinny firing off rapid double jabs. This was very similar to how Walcott double jabbed when doing the 'Walcott waltz'.

Many professional fighters have learnt from the masters of the past and bring elements of their respective games into their own. It may not always be obvious though.

I'm suprised that you seem to feel so strong about the subject. A fighter may have dozens of influences. That Hopkins, Jones and Toney even chose to bring Walcott's name up in interviews is a testiment to his brilliance. Of course Robinson, Leonard and Hearns are cited too to name a few others, but I suppose Walcott is a less obvious, though no less deserving choice in my opinion.

Great fighter.

[boxing boy]

Granted, Hopkins has had nights when he has fought dirty. He has also had nights when he has boxed technically and very cleanly, check out the De La Hoya fight, the Trinidad fight, Joppy, Eastman, even the Pavlik fight for some excellent boxing. But for what its worth Hopkin's dirty tactics have nothing to do with Walcott. But as for some of Hopkins wily, slippery defensive moves..........its possible to draw parallels.

But in comparing styles, try to look beyond the obvious. Watch how Roy Jones can pull back from a right cross and counter with his own, or slip a jab and hook with the left, these sort of moves were mastered by many old masters in the Walcott/Archie Moore/Ray Robinson sense.

Jersey Joe was excellent at feinting, it can be difficult for those who haven't boxed or even sparred to watch for the subtle signs, or the way he drew taller fighters onto his right cross. Side steps were another thing he did well, prime Toney used many of these tricks too.

But I am a little concerned that you dont think Jones was ever a technician. His defense tended to rely on reflex and his hands were often held low but he was a superb technician with a solid amateur pedigree. He just lacked/or grew out of using basic defensive fundamentals that may have served him well when his reflexes started to erode. Prime Roy Jones was a technical masterclass, a lesson in orthodox combination punching, countering, fighting off the ropes and in footwork. Oh and Walcott was notorious for relying on reflexes and having his hands lower than they should have been too! Are you going to say that Walcott wasn't a technician now?

There were times when Roy Jones looked very similar to Walcott. The Vinny Pazienza fight comes to mind, when Roy danced on his toes around poor Vinny firing off rapid double jabs. This was very similar to how Walcott double jabbed when doing the 'Walcott waltz'.

Many professional fighters have learnt from the masters of the past and bring elements of their respective games into their own. It may not always be obvious though.

I'm suprised that you seem to feel so strong about the subject. A fighter may have dozens of influences. That Hopkins, Jones and Toney even chose to bring Walcott's name up in interviews is a testiment to his brilliance. Of course Robinson, Leonard and Hearns are cited too to name a few others, but I suppose Walcott is a less obvious, though no less deserving choice in my opinion.

Great fighter.

Great post,I don't think he understands what you are saying.

Heck,even fighters like Mike Tyson and Joe Frazier have picked up things from fighters who were "boxers" not sluggers.And at the right time use very "subtle" things that they saw and learned from watching other fighters on film.

Again,great post.I hope he understands what you are saying.

[Sugarj]

I totally agree Boxingboy. Joe Frazier's ultimate idol for instance was Joe Louis, who couldn't be any more stylistically different to Smoking Joe. But thats not to say Frazier didn't pick things up from Joe Louis. Obviously Hurricane Hank was an influence too. Its the subtle things that count in building a fighter into the complete package.............and influences can often come from past greats.

For what its worth I've agreed with Frankenfrank before on other subjects. It would be boring if we all had the same views.

A debate makes things interesting! Its nice to have something else to chat about other than Joe Frazier's chin in the history section! Ha ha

[Obama]

Homicide Hank.