What is your opinion of Lennox Lewis?

[Steak]

I copied and pasted from a previous thread.

I prefer using quantitative data rather than the fairy tale imaginary BS.. Some people say things here and dont back things up with actual facts or numbers.

Age plays a significant role in determining prime, what other factors would you like to discuss?

Age can be a big factor, but overall damage accumulated during a fighters' career also plays a HUGE roll.

plus the generally shape they keep themselves in inbetween fights...If youre not treating your body right, it will catch up to you in boxing, even if you show up to the actualy fights in good shape.

also cutting weight can drastically effect your long term performance. Keeping yourself malnourished and dehydrated while still training really hurts your body in the long term. Thats one reason you dont often see the lighter weight guys have long careers while heavyweights can have long careers.

one more very overlooked aspect that people overlook sometimes...sparring. A fighter whos training primarily consists of heavy sparring will not have a long career. Think about it: despite the heavier gloves and headgear, youre still taking punches, and even if you dont get hit often in sparring it will still accumulate fast, faster than fights sometimes. This explains why someone like Terry Norris went downhill very abruptly and drastically even at only 30 years of age, the guy did a huge amount of sparring.

that covers most of them, although there can be other, more rare factors too.

[CarlosG815]

I knew you would panic once I started to bring up numbers, nice talkin to ya.

I will post this again: I will not debate with a person as ****** and stubborn as you because it's pointless. Would you argue ANYTHING with this mule?



See, to me, you're just like that mule. Why would I waste the time?

[Joeyzagz]

I will post this again: I will not debate with a person as ****** and stubborn as you because it's pointless. Would you argue ANYTHING with this mule?

You got pissed because I brought up the actual ages of Lennox's opponents.

If you just want to slander you can take it to the Lounge or the Thunderdome. In those forums you can can name-call as much is you want, and you don't even have to back it up!

[Joeyzagz]

Age can be a big factor, but overall damage accumulated during a fighters' career also plays a HUGE roll.

plus the generally shape they keep themselves in inbetween fights...If youre not treating your body right, it will catch up to you in boxing, even if you show up to the actualy fights in good shape.

also cutting weight can drastically effect your long term performance. Keeping yourself malnourished and dehydrated while still training really hurts your body in the long term. Thats one reason you dont often see the lighter weight guys have long careers while heavyweights can have long careers.

one more very overlooked aspect that people overlook sometimes...sparring. A fighter whos training primarily consists of heavy sparring will not have a long career. Think about it: despite the heavier gloves and headgear, youre still taking punches, and even if you dont get hit often in sparring it will still accumulate fast, faster than fights sometimes. This explains why someone like Terry Norris went downhill very abruptly and drastically even at only 30 years of age, the guy did a huge amount of sparring.

that covers most of them, although there can be other, more rare factors too.

All good points. So basically it boils down to Age, accumulated damage and taking care of your body.

Lennox was Ko'd twice and went to war with Mercer, he took his fair share of licks just like everyone else. You can even make the argument that he absorbed more punishment from 1994-2002 than Tyson did. So why didnt Mike Tyson take advantage of this battered Lennox guy who was poleaxed by a journeyman just a year before?

[Steak]

apart from his KO losses, Lewis didnt take much punishment in his career. true lasting damage doesnt generally come from one punch KOs on the chin, they come from accumulative damage. The only one punch KOs that have dangerous lasting effects is when the punch snaps the neck very badly, resulting in the brain getting whipped around in the skull. On the chin(Lewis's KO losses) sort of just 'turn out the lights', you can get over it relatively quickly.
Lewis really didnt absorb much accumulative damage in his career other than a handful of fights, so he was well preserved.

Tyson probably took more damage in the Holyfield and Douglas fights than Lewis did in his losses+the Mercer fight, but overall his problem wasnt really accumulated damage, more a change in his boxing lifestyle. after all, he was still a young fighter at his best, and unless young fighters immerse themselves in training, it wont come naturally to them in the fight due to lack of experience. Tyson was starting to go downhill about after he split with Rooney imo, not because Rooney was a legendary trainer or anything, but more because it showed that Tyson wasnt making boxing his #1 priority anymore. Rooney wasnt that great, but he did keep Tyson focused, and reinforced what Cus had built Tyson upon.

...right. point is, that Tyson's fall was much more do to lack of motivation, concentration and uneffective training style than age or damage. his life did get pretty hectic over the years, after all.

[Obama]

^^^This is the main reason why I rank Lennox so high. Lennox was considered prime throughout his career but guys like Bowe burn out at 28? When you say a 28 year old is past his prime, something is clearly wrong.

What exactly made Bowe shot in your mind?

I didn't say he was shot. I said he was past his prime. And his damn performance made it obvious. He looked nowhere near as good as he used to be. It's not like Golota was just the best opponent he ever faced. Holyfield was leagues better. And Bowe is the only man to beat a 100% Holyfield.

Lewis struggled badly in his rematch with a 75% Holyfield. Bowe's victory over a 100% Holyfield was much more convincing.

[Fighting Marine]

I didn't say he was shot. I said he was past his prime. And his damn performance made it obvious. He looked nowhere near as good as he used to be. It's not like Golota was just the best opponent he ever faced. Holyfield was leagues better. And Bowe is the only man to beat a 100% Holyfield.

Lewis struggled badly in his rematch with a 75% Holyfield. Bowe's victory over a 100% Holyfield was much more convincing.

I agree....You have to give Bowe more credit over his performance against Holyfield than Lennox's performances.

[sonnyboyx2]

Past prime opposition? Lennox was the geezer in the vast majority of his last 15 fights. His average opponent had a 4 year age advantage over him. Id like to see this list of 10 Hws you have ranked over Lewis. I guarantee most have unavenged losses and the ones that dont never defended a title past the age of 33.

Age of Lennox and his last 10 opponentsAge Difference

Lennox(37) vs Vitali(31) +6
Lennox(36) vs Tyson(35) +1
Lennox(35) vs Rahman(28) +7
Lennox(35) vs David Tua(27) +8
Lennox(35) vs Botha(31) +4
Lennox(34) vs Michael Grant(27) +7
Lennox(33) vs Holyfield(36) -3
Lennox(33) vs Marovic(29) +4
Lennox(32) vs Briggs(26) +6
Lennox(32) vs Golota(29) +3

Age is imaterial its quality of opposition that counts:

Tyson - 12yrs since Douglas beat him+several jail terms
Rahman - bum who Maskaev had poleaxed
Tua - Fattest man to ever fight for the title
Botha - `steroid freak unworthy of title fight
Grant - Bum who was exposed by Golota and unworthy
Holyfield - yrs past best and `Robbed` in rematch
Mavrovic - who?.. medoicre european class c fighter
Briggs - bum
Golota - quitter who lost to every fighter rated above class C
Lewis could and should have been fighting the top fighters from 92-2003 like Tyson 96, Bowe 93 & 95, Holyfield 94-96, Holmes 92-94, Foreman 94-95, Moorer, Hide 94-96, Sanders 94-99, Witherspoon 94-96, Ruiz 97-03, Byrd 99-03, Jones Jr. Wlad 98-03... instead Lewis fought a bunch of has-beens and tomato cans with none of them being at the `Top of their Game`... you have now switched your argument to a age-related one so as to justify your pathetic analysis that Lewis should be rated a Top 10 fighter, you need to face up to the facts of this guys career and realize that you are in the very small minority of boxing fans who hold the guy in such high esteem

[prinzemanspopa]

whatever. people dont like Golota becasue hes insane(at least in the ring), and for that I cant really blame you, but the guy was a talented heavyweight. if the Bowe fights dont tell you that, then you should look to later in his career when he was past his prime and yet still deserved decisions over Chris Byrd and Ruiz.(who sadly were top fighters around at the time)

Not true at all.It was a close fight,but if anyone deserved to win the decision then it was byrd.He pretty much won every round after the fifth.


The Ruiz fight was too boring to score.I was very sleepy watching it and couldn't wait for it to end.

All I remember was Ruiz holding alot and not doing much clean scoring until the later rounds.Perhaps he was robbed there.

[TheManniePhresh]

I have him as a top ten ATG heavyweight, but the bottom half.

Excellent fighter, who sadly often comes up second in head to head fantasy matches with big punchers, due to the fact that both of his losses were one punch KOs to less than ATG opposition.

i think he was the best heavyweight in the 90s but i think ali and foreman would have whipped him. frazier possibly but i think he hit harder than ali so maybe not, 80s tyson i would have loved to see but i think the what if 80s tyson thing is done to death so thats it. btw i think he would have lost a rematch to klits but i know he lost that first fight.