Dwight Muhamed Qawi called Marvin Hagler out

[r.burgundy]

i think any former welter knocking guys out at 160+ lbs is incredible.hearns is my #3 welter of all time behind srr,and srl.even though fights arent won on paper,there arent many top mw,lhw,or cruisers i would favor hearns over.of all the fighters you call notable i think schuler was the guy who couldve been a really great win down the road.i think it couldve been a win like gonzalez was for jones.gonzalez wasnt a popular jones foe but ended up beating michalskwi,a guy who many clamied jones ducked.clinton woods also gave jonhson some very tough fights,even though some claim home cooking was involved in his win.

You've gone wandering off on to another thread again..

gene tunney:" Greb was made to observe the rules closely and this undoubtedly curbed his usual free-wheeling style."

johnny wilson:"The Pittsburgh Post reported that Greb did not fight in his usual cyclonic style. Evidently fearing disqualification he boxed in orthodox style."

quotes like that make me wonder what the hell was going on in these fights and how many fights did he win by not being made to closely observe the rules.

When there's 299 fights to chose from, it does get a little confusing.. He may have gotten clumbsy in a few of them, but what do you expect from a man with one eye?... He was still beating 90% of those put infront of him, not to mention that many of them were world champions or ATG's at LHW.. The fact that he could adapt to so many different styles is fundumentally what made him so great..

but really the most telling is his fight with soldier jones who was 18-18.
"After one minute of action Greb was caught by a right hook and floored for "8." Harry was "wobbling like a drunk" when he got to his feet and Jones dumped him again with a right. Greb appeared out when he got to his feet, pale and shaken, but backpedalled and lasted out the round. Harry started well in the second round but after a minute Jones landed two lefts and Greb was in bad trouble again."
granted that fight is closer to the end of his career than his prime,it leads me to believe he wouldnt stand a chance with great mw's like hagler,hopkins,and monzon,jones etc,especially if made to observe the rules.but almost getting ko'd by a guy who retired 20-28 with a 34% ko ratio is inexcusable for a supposed top 10 atg,especially in the weight class your ranked in.

Well, there's been plenty of ATG's who have been cold ****ed in the first round, or have suffered a freak ko by a journeyman, but here we have one who after over 200 fights, got back up and won.. Another sign of greatness!

theirs ignorance on both parts.in sports,seeing is believing.how much of your thoughts are your own if their all based on other peoples eyes and opinions?

But you're happy to go with the opinion of Boxrec to discredit his win against Jones!..

plenty of atg's like who lol?if they get ko'd by a journeyman in the 1st round chances are they aint that great

no matter how you want spin it,you shouldnt be hanging on for dear life against an 18-18 guy.thats just not atg status.i can only imagine if that happened to bernard or floyd,the ammo that would provide for people like you and bert sugar.

opinion?i thought every thing written about these guys was a fact.do you have a different account of what went on in that fight?

[JAB5239]

plenty of atg's like who lol?if they get ko'd by a journeyman in the 1st round chances are they aint that great

no matter how you want spin it,you shouldnt be hanging on for dear life against an 18-18 guy.thats just not atg status.i can only imagine if that happened to bernard or floyd,the ammo that would provide for people like you and bert sugar.

opinion?i thought every thing written about these guys was a fact.do you have a different account of what went on in that fight?

Lets look at the things you fail to consider about this particular fight. First, boxrec often has incomplete information about fighters from this era unless they were perennial contenders. Jones could have been vastly more experienced than his record suggests. Second, this was Grebs 4th fight in 30 days. This would lead me to at least consider he MAY have been fighting with an unreported injury, which was common back than. Third, Greb had just fought all time great Tommy Loughran two weeks prior to his fight with Jones. You condemn him for having a difficult time against this opponent even though it was his fourth fight in a month, but applaud fighters of today who only fight 3 times a year. How much more difficult was it in Grebs day compared to now?

[DeepSleep]

tall,yes,big no

who did he fight bigger?

what notable fighter has mugabe ever ko'd?never said he couldnt punch,just said he was an overated puncher

greb was almost ko'd by a guy who was 18-18.alotta his feats sound fictional to me

what win does srr have that trumps foreman???this oughta be good

hopkins best wins are against tito,the linear lhw champ tarver,which is somethin that trumps anything hagler did,and beating the undisputed mw champ in pavlik at age 43

What is your definition of big? Hearns was both taller and had a longer reach than every opponent at WW.

Here's a few fighter's Hagler fought who were over 6'0", (Take note he was 5'9 so I didn't list all of them because most of them were either also 5'9" or 5'10");

Sugar Ray Seales x 3 - 6'1"
Willie Monroe x 3 - 6'0"
Fulgencio Obelmejias - 6'0"

Mugabi never knocked out any big name fighter because he was a poor boxer and never had the best chin so he usually got knocked out before he could land his bombs against elite talent. When he did land his punches he would one hit quit folks and put them to sleep in such a destructive manner it was clear that he could ****.

Being blind in one eye tends to make fighting difficult.

Beating Gavilan is a better win than beating Foreman.

Hopkins best wins are Tito(WW), Oscar(WW) and Winky Wright(JMW). Pavlik is nowhere near as good as people thought he was when Hopkins beat him and Tarver was a shell of himself after having to drop so much weight after the Rocky movie. I'm not saying Hopkins was a bad MW, I rank him around #5all time at MW but he enjoyed a size advantage in most of his fights at MW(Not that it makes a diffrence if you work hard enough to make weight than where is the problem?). To degrade Hagler because he fought guys smaller than him and praise Hopkins is a bit hypocritical.

[r.burgundy]

What is your definition of big? Hearns was both taller and had a longer reach than every opponent at WW.

Here's a few fighter's Hagler fought who were over 6'0", (Take note he was 5'9 so I didn't list all of them because most of them were either also 5'9" or 5'10");

Sugar Ray Seales x 3 - 6'1"
Willie Monroe x 3 - 6'0"
Fulgencio Obelmejias - 6'0"

Mugabi never knocked out any big name fighter because he was a poor boxer and never had the best chin so he usually got knocked out before he could land his bombs against elite talent. When he did land his punches he would one hit quit folks and put them to sleep in such a destructive manner it was clear that he could ****.

Being blind in one eye tends to make fighting difficult.

Beating Gavilan is a better win than beating Foreman.

Hopkins best wins are Tito(WW), Oscar(WW) and Winky Wright(JMW). Pavlik is nowhere near as good as people thought he was when Hopkins beat him and Tarver was a shell of himself after having to drop so much weight after the Rocky movie. I'm not saying Hopkins was a bad MW, I rank him around #5all time at MW but he enjoyed a size advantage in most of his fights at MW(Not that it makes a diffrence if you work hard enough to make weight than where is the problem?). To degrade Hagler because he fought guys smaller than him and praise Hopkins is a bit hypocritical.

big as in mass.not height or reach.

i already listed guys hagler fought in that height range

so if he was never able to k.o anybody of note then that should show he wasnt that great a puncher.mayorga isnt skilled at all and he k.o'd forrest.alotta guys step into a ring just to get k.od

fighting blind in 1 eye is only an excuse if you lose.and if he's beating guys with 1 eye that should also say alot about the level of competiton.

lmao.based on what?gavilan started off as a featherweight.and its not like he was a kid either.23 i believe.based off the video of gavilan ive seen he didnt stand a snowballs chance in hell of winning that fight,and is probally 1 of the most feather fisted fighters in history.i swear you dudes like to pull names out of hats.that other guy even tried to say armstrong.smh

tarver was a shell of himself lol.jesus i done heard it all.regardless of what you think of pavlik,fact is hopkins was a heavy underdog,43,facing the undisputed heavy handed mw champ who beat the guy who beat him.pavlik is a great win,as was tarver

and i praise hopkins more for the move up tp 175 and beating the m.w chamo at 43.things marvin wouldnt dare to do.

[r.burgundy]

Lets look at the things you fail to consider about this particular fight. First, boxrec often has incomplete information about fighters from this era unless they were perennial contenders. Jones could have been vastly more experienced than his record suggests. Second, this was Grebs 4th fight in 30 days. This would lead me to at least consider he MAY have been fighting with an unreported injury, which was common back than. Third, Greb had just fought all time great Tommy Loughran two weeks prior to his fight with Jones. You condemn him for having a difficult time against this opponent even though it was his fourth fight in a month, but applaud fighters of today who only fight 3 times a year. How much more difficult was it in Grebs day compared to now?

lmao.this is just getting sadder and sadder.are these really the best excuses you can muster?i could see if jones went on to do great things in boxing but he would go on to win 2 more fights and lose 8.in 28 losses he was ko'd 18 times lol.its why we need video to make the best assesment of fighters

[JAB5239]

lmao.this is just getting sadder and sadder.are these really the best excuses you can muster?i could see if jones went on to do great things in boxing but he would go on to win 2 more fights and lose 8.in 28 losses he was ko'd 18 times lol.its why we need video to make the best assesment of fighters

So how do you know there was no injury or he simply wasn't exhausted? Its convenient how you simply dismiss everything that is possible without even considering the schedule he was fighting.

[r.burgundy]

So how do you know there was no injury or he simply wasn't exhausted? Its convenient how you simply dismiss everything that is possible without even considering the schedule he was fighting.

lol.keep the excuses rolling.the fact that he went on to dominate the fight after round 5 or 6 would suggest that he was fine physically

[JAB5239]

lol.keep the excuses rolling.the fact that he went on to dominate the fight after round 5 or 6 would suggest that he was fine physically

No, the fact he went on to dominate just proves he was a great fighter that overcame adversity. I forget, remind me how many other times he dominated in his career including fighter, top fighters all the way from middle to heavy? Your bias and close mindedness are very telling.

[r.burgundy]

No, the fact he went on to dominate just proves he was a great fighter that overcame adversity. I forget, remind me how many other times he dominated in his career including fighter, top fighters all the way from middle to heavy? Your bias and close mindedness are very telling.

lol.the fact he had to overcome an 18-18 fighter usually proves other wise.that fact that you are on the verge of tears is more telling.if he could be almost be stopped by soldier jones,i dont like his chances against real fighters

[DeepSleep]

big as in mass.not height or reach.

i already listed guys hagler fought in that height range

so if he was never able to k.o anybody of note then that should show he wasnt that great a puncher.mayorga isnt skilled at all and he k.o'd forrest.alotta guys step into a ring just to get k.od

fighting blind in 1 eye is only an excuse if you lose.and if he's beating guys with 1 eye that should also say alot about the level of competiton.

lmao.based on what?gavilan started off as a featherweight.and its not like he was a kid either.23 i believe.based off the video of gavilan ive seen he didnt stand a snowballs chance in hell of winning that fight,and is probally 1 of the most feather fisted fighters in history.i swear you dudes like to pull names out of hats.that other guy even tried to say armstrong.smh

tarver was a shell of himself lol.jesus i done heard it all.regardless of what you think of pavlik,fact is hopkins was a heavy underdog,43,facing the undisputed heavy handed mw champ who beat the guy who beat him.pavlik is a great win,as was tarver

and i praise hopkins more for the move up tp 175 and beating the m.w chamo at 43.things marvin wouldnt dare to do.

Was Valero a heavy puncher? He never knocked anyone with a legit name out.

Was Naseem Hamed a heavy puncher? He never knocked out anybody with a great name outside Kevin Kelly.

Earnie Shavers only knockout wins over major names was Jimmy Young, an old Jimmy Ellis and an old Norton. In most every other fight he had with a name opponent he ended up getting knocked out, not because he was an overrated puncher but becuase he was a poor boxer. Against better competition he couldn't land his bombs.

If you want to say that Mugabi wasn't a great puncher that's fair since his punches were wild, telegraphed and poorly setup but It's hard to deny the power behind them.

Gavilian was close to 5'11" so he started at featherweight because he was 17 not because he was a natural featherweight. Denying that Gavilan was a welterweight is silly.

Sugar Ray Robinson was a featherweight when he was 18, he won the Golden Gloves National Featherweight Championship was he a Featherweight also?

When I was 17 I fought at 141, now I fight at 165 and no one would confuse me for a natural light welterweight...

Tarver went from 218 to 175. http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/box...dan&id=2475525

At his age trying to drop 45 pounds that quickly is career suicide.

Hagler has quite a few wins better than both a weight drained 36 year old Tarver and a one dimensional Pavlik and so does Hopkins.