Ring Magazine's 100 Greatest Punchers p4p

[StarshipTrooper]

OK. Now I was a regular subscriber to Ring Magazine when this list came out and as they explained it in issue the list is "greatest puncher" not "hardest puncher". The list is for the total package as a puncher not just power. Power is only one part of the equation. Precision and accuracy, explosiveness, speed, combinations, ect. all factor into the ratings. And rightly so.

Poet

[GoogleMe]

Hamed is wayyyyyyyy too low... Could easily be top 20 or 15.

[Barn]

But Liston had scary power because he knocked out the iron chinned Floyd Patterson?

Ray Arcel claimed Dempsey was probaly the hardest puncher he EVER saw in his lifetime. That speaks for itself.

Dempsey also KO'd more durable fighters & overall better fighters than Liston did.

To say it's crazy to compare Dempseys power to Liston's is utter BS.

Who? The ever durable Georges Carpentier?

[McGoorty]

Dempsey couldn't even properly KO Williard, if Foreman or Liston got that many clean punches in, Williard is history.

Saying he punched harder than Liston is crazy in my opinion.

Maybe they are "Heavier" punchers but p4p he is high up there... P.S. I know Marciano was a similar weight and I think he hit heavier than Dempsey, but I can't say with certainty. I don't know where the idea came from that Willard wasn't tough,.. against Dempsey, Jess showed more guts and fortitude than I've ever seen :-- PERIOD.... what a heroic man Jess Willard was !!!!!!,. he was Freakin' hard, just not one of the more talented and I think he'd go allright today, nobodies breaking Jess's jaw with these big gloves, and there's no plaster inside,...... I admire Willard, he deserves to be remembered.

[Barn]

I think the easiest way to settle the debate of Liston vs Dempsey is looking at the footage.





Don't get me wrong, I like Dempsey (which is why I have a highlight made) I just don't feel he compares with Liston in terms of raw power.

[Greatest1942]

I think the easiest way to settle the debate of Liston vs Dempsey is looking at the footage.





Don't get me wrong, I like Dempsey (which is why I have a highlight made) I just don't feel he compares with Liston in terms of raw power.

Did Liston punch harder than Dempsey ? yea..P4P ? Dempsey...I did not see Liston knocking out guys 40-50 pounds heavier...

You see Willard taking so many punches and say Liston would have put him away...this is wrong IMO...Willard had a solid chin...he was not easy to put away..jack Johnson did not put him away in 26 rounds..yea he was unskilled, but he was tough...the fact that Dempsey did hurt him so easily while being outweighed speaks for itself. That KO is a credit.

Well Liston could not KO Marty Marshall who wa sinfact smaller than him by large extent, while he did hit him with some punches...that makes Liston a poor puncher ?

Dempsey did KO Fulton in 18 seconds...don't think he landed multiple blows there ? He had a record of 1st round Ko's and in those I don't think he needed as many shots as Willard.

Yea he could not KO a lot of good fighters, so could not Liston...Machen escaped him.

Lastly it was the greatest puncher not hardest...it appears to me Dempsey's punches were shorter, more compact and he did have better handspeed, and put together better combos. All these count...Otherwise some one like Shavers would have been #1 not Louis.

[Barn]

Did Liston punch harder than Dempsey ? yea..P4P ? Dempsey...I did not see Liston knocking out guys 30 pounds heavier...

You see Willard taking so many punches and say Liston would have put him away...this is wrong IMO...Willard had a solid chin...he was not easy to put away..jack Johnson did not put him away in 26 rounds..yea he was unskilled, but he was tough...the fact that Dempsey did hurt him so easily while being outweighed speaks for itself. That KO is a credit.

Well Liston could not KO Marty Marshall who wa sinfact smaller than him by large extent, while he did hit him with some punches...that makes Liston a poor puncher ?

Dempsey did KO Fulton in 18 seconds...don't think he landed multiple blows there ? He had a record of 1st round Ko's and in those I don't think he needed as many shots as Willard.

Yea he could not KO a lot of good fighters, so could not Liston...Machen escaped him.

Lastly it was the greatest puncher not hardest...it appears to me Dempsey's punches were shorter, more compact and he did have better handspeed, and put together better combos. All these count...Otherwise some one like Shavers would have been #1 not Louis.

We all know Jack Johnson was quite the bit past prime here.

He managed it the first time, putting him down 7 times in total.

Fulton nearly has the same ratio of Losses/KO losses as Patterson, albeit that's a good KO as he was so much heavier.

Why is Muhammad Ali not on this list then

Another point, you keep referring to weight. If this is the case how is Joe Walcott so low on this list? He's at #52 and routinely knocked out people much heavier than him.

[Greatest1942]

Who? The ever durable Georges Carpentier?

What is so wrong with Carpentier? he was 17 when he lost to Dixie Kid,18 when he lost to Klaus and Papke,and 20 when he lost to Jeanette.
Carpentier was 30 when he lost to Gibbons. Tunney beat him up, but he hung on...staged almost a comeback...then was stopped by body punch,didn't quit, and does not seem to be so undurable either, outside his prime he lost to Loughran .

He won the european titles at welter, middle, lightheavy and heavy. Today it will be equal to holding some belt...he winning percentage seems fine.

He held his own against Dempsey , Tunney, Jeannette, Papke, and defeated Jeff Smith, who beat Les Darcy and drew several times with Harry Greb and Mike Gibbons. He was not a great fighter, but he certainly was world class and no bum...

[Barn]

What is so wrong with Carpentier? he was 17 when he lost to Dixie Kid,18 when he lost to Klaus and Papke,and 20 when he lost to Jeanette.
Carpentier was 30 when he lost to Gibbons. Tunney beat him up, but he hung on...staged almost a comeback...then was stopped by body punch,didn't quit, and does not seem to be so undurable either, outside his prime he lost to Loughran .

He won the european titles at welter, middle, lightheavy and heavy. Today it will be equal to holding some belt...he winning percentage seems fine.

He held his own against Dempsey , Tunney, Jeannette, Papke, and defeated Jeff Smith, who beat Les Darcy and drew several times with Harry Greb and Mike Gibbons. He was not a great fighter, but he certainly was world class and no bum...

Who said there was something wrong with him?

Just stating he's not the best example of a "tough and durable fighter" you could use to back up your examples.

[Greatest1942]

We all know Jack Johnson was quite the bit past prime here.

He managed it the first time, putting him down 7 times in total.

Fulton nearly has the same ratio of Losses/KO losses as Patterson, albeit that's a good KO as he was so much heavier.

Why is Muhammad Ali not on this list then

Another point, you keep referring to weight. If this is the case how is Joe Walcott so low on this list? He's at #52 and routinely knocked out people much heavier than him.

"He managed it the first time, putting him down 7 times in total."

He did not put him away in 26 rounds, and while Johnson was outside of his prime, Willard barely learnt to box some years ago...I dont think he could protect himself well, and he needed his durabilty to stay afloat...teh fight with Johnson speaks volumes about Willard's durability.

Fulton was good, he did not have a good chin...his Losses/Ko ratio is same as Patterson..it appears to me that in 18 seconds Dempsey hit Fulton much less (should be ), than Liston did in knocking out Patterson, who was also smaller than him.


Ali did not have one punch power, never really sat down on his punches, was a flurrier than a combination puncher, needed really a great amount of punches generally to hurt someone), has rarely some 1st round KO's or so to show he had raw power...

Just to reiterate ...RAW POWER IS A CRITERIA , NOT THE CRITERIA...you must have raw power to hurt guys quickly, or with one punch...but you also need the other assets to be a great puncher. Besides I do think that Ko percentage should count for something, and in these Walcott or Ali falls short.

Walcott, please let me know who did Walcott hurt who weighed much more than him ? Just curious? Ezzard Charles? Louis? He did not KO Abe Simons and Simons has a worse beard than Willard...I mentioned weigh , and also told that besides being heavier than Dempsey Willard was certainly tough and had a great chin...I don't think Liston would have put him away easily too.