Is Joe Louis A Top 5 ATG?

[Postman prat]

i never accused him of ducking anyone. he was the h2h best of his era.
but when compiling ATG lists at hw , legacy is not what at stake. h2h is , however. and while louis should be ranked higher than everyone of his time , he can't be regarded a favorite against the elite of all time , had i measured legacy , i guess he might make the top10 hw , but i don't care whose legacy's better than whom , all i care is who will beat whom and how.
and i will give louis the respect of being my favorite to beat Oleg Maskaev , but not an overwhelming favorite as some will make of him

maskaev has a glass jaw and wouldn't last a round with joe louis.



youre talking nonsense

[frankenfrank]

maskaev has a glass jaw and wouldn't last a round with joe louis.



youre talking nonsense

maskaev is chinny , yes , but that chin held for him in 2 fights against rahman , corrie sanders' didn't and lewis' didn't (on one out of two occasions) , or do you make a lethal puncher out of maskaev ?
and after all , what did i say , that louis is my favorite to beat maskaev ?
the old and shot version of maskaev has a glass jaw , when he was younger he was a mere chinny fighter whom was very unlucky in terms of opposition faced , remotely a well protected fighter.
in his better days he lost by stoppage only to very very big men or very very hard puncher with an almost completely punch proof chin

[JAB5239]

Your getting defensive again.

Lets just take one example.Roberto Duran vs Muhammad Ali

Sure we take there resume's and compare them.Sure we take everything in to consideration.I rank Roberto Duran ahead of Muhammad Ali.

Now lets consider blowing up Roberto Duran to 215 lbs. He would easily beat and KO Muhammad Ali.So would SRL if we were blowing him up to 215 lbs. Could you imagine with his speed at heavyweight along with his power? Both would easily beat and KO Muhammad Ali and Joe Louis.

But comparing Duran and SRL with Muhammad Ali and Joe Louis.When blowing them up to 215lbs wouldn't they lose some of there speed,quickness,and reflexes? Imagine Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali coming down to 135lbs.Imagine how much faster,quicker,and there reflexes would be? Do you understand what I'm saying? Big guys are always slower,uncordinated,with slower reflexes and agility.

I know of people when comparing fighters p4p....They say:Imagine blowing up Harry Greb to 215 lbs.Can you imagine how bad he would destroy every heavyweight? But they don't take into consideration when blowing him up,that he would lose speed,quickness,and reflexes.Don't get me wrong,they take everything into consideration,but then ADD ON... imagine if we blown up Marvin Hagler to 220 lbs?

I was just wondering if you ever did that when comparing lower weight classes to the Heavyweights.Don't get defensive.I'm not saying you do this.I'm simply asking the question.

Thank you

First off, what is it with you and this whole "getting defensive" thing? You ask questions I answer them. I ask questions you answer them. I think you're reading more into things than what is actually at hand.

No, I do not imagine fighters blowing up in weight and how they would do. That to me is meaningless and proves nothing. I believe we have all the proof we need to determine these things by what we see of each fighter and his opponents. As you have already stated the big guys are slower, less coordinated and have less agility. In the lower divisions the competition is a lot tougher because there isn't such a gap in talent as compared to who Louis or Ali fought. That is how and why I choose to not rank either in my top 10.

[mickey malone]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mickey malone
Between 1936 and 1951 Joe Louis's average fighting weight was 206lbs..
During this time he had 46 contests which included 25 title defenses..
If you divide the sum total of his recorded weigh-in's (9485lbs) by the number of fights (46) = 206lbs = 6'2" underrated heavyweight..

Quote: frankenfrank
what you clam is a mere consequence of a weak era.
many fighters since 1965 could have ruled the pre 1965 era

like it or not :
louis loses by stoppage to the following : Vitali Klitschko , Wladimir Klitschko , David Tua , Mike Tyson , George Foreman , Joe Frazier ,
Rocky Marciano , Rid**** Bowe ,

he gets the puncher's chance but no more than that against : Wladimir Klitschko , Lennox Lewis , Joe Frazier , Rocky Marciano.
and i wonder how many posters here will consider him a favorite against Ali or Holmes.

he might get McCall by way of decision .

he may have a 50/50 chance against Sam Peter Liston , Schmelling (history proved that)
and against Patterson , Johnson Bonavena , Lyle and Shavers he might be a slight favorite , some 60/40 no more.

sorry , it doesn't look like top15 hw to me.
someone please make a Louis vs. Arreola fantasy fight.

Why all this?... I don't care if people think the slow fat guys of today could beat Louis.. The forum needs a bit of humour..
I was merely pointing out that he was not a cruiserweight..

[StarshipTrooper]

Why all this?... I don't care if people think the slow fat guys of today could beat Louis.. The forum needs a bit of humour..
I was merely pointing out that he was not a cruiserweight..

He thinks anyone under 235 is a "featherfisted" Cruiserweight

Poet

[Miburo]

No, but certainly one of the top 5 in terms of cultural prominence.