Cleveland "Big Cat" Williams KO

[QueensburyRules]

The original post is from 12 years ago. Link will have been deleted. Nash out.

- - Eh, eh, the usual missing links in the history section seem to be missing more than few missing IQ links to understand that most links on the internet then were never intended to be permanent.

[Nash out]

- - Eh, eh, the usual missing links in the history section seem to be missing more than few missing IQ links to understand that most links on the internet then were never intended to be permanent.

I guess not everything can be as permanent as the Great Nash. Nash out.

[mrbig1]

Another very good fighter that history has forgotten. He would have killed Patterson.

[Willow The Wisp]

I remember TheGreatA, using the same name, from where I was posting years ago. If we had all these title sanctioning bodies around in 1959-60 Machen, Folley and Williams would each have a title with enough titles left over for Patterson & Johansson to be swapping one and Liston to grab a title of his own allot earlier than he did. Maybe there is something to be said for the cheap-title madness we are suffering with today.

[Willie Pep 229]

It seems everyone on this forum thinks everyone would 'kill Patterson' except only one guy did, Liston.

On this forum Patterson is judged as if we judged Hearns by only the Barkley fights; Ali by the Norton fights; or Frazier by Foreman.

[Willow The Wisp]

It seems everyone on this forum thinks everyone would 'kill Patterson' except only one guy did, Liston.

On this forum Patterson is judged as if we judged Hearns by only the Barkley fights; Ali by the Norton fights; or Frazier by Foreman.

That is an astute point my friend. Patterson was brilliant. One of the 3 fastest holders of the modern Heavyweight title, with the power to knock people dead. It's my observation that a great many posters don't appear to know much about the topic here at all, and I try to help them learn. Every so often you find one with an appitite for that, and to be sure, I'm not done learning myself.
The other thing I loved about Floyd Patterson is the kind of man he was. The sport never had a better spokesperson than that honest, decent, humble and intelligent person.

[QueensburyRules]

It seems everyone on this forum thinks everyone would 'kill Patterson' except only one guy did, Liston.

On this forum Patterson is judged as if we judged Hearns by only the Barkley fights; Ali by the Norton fights; or Frazier by Foreman.

- - Floyd an honourable man and fighter fought in a very weak era that had not yet recovered from WW2, one of the last relics of the smallish, chinny heavyweights

[Willie Pep 229]

- - Floyd an honourable man and fighter fought in a very weak era that had not yet recovered from WW2, one of the last relics of the smallish, chinny heavyweights

A reasonable assessment; but not the walk over everyone quickly dismisses him as.

[QueensburyRules]

,
A reasonable assessment; but not the walk over everyone quickly dismisses him as.

- - Not being one of the "everyone" rave cluster, you never answered who Floyd beat to become the Ring Champ, ie Lineal. Ring says it was when he beat ancient Archie after one of the most brutal beatdowns in boxing history the year before vs Rocky.

Arch logged 11 tough fights in that year interval compared to young Floyd's 5 fights. In short, Floyd being unassuming in his intelligently gregarious public conversations, he was the ideal model that Nat was attracted to.

So, it weren't the man in the street consensus, it was just Nat and his Biblical aficionados, and it's that Biblical History that Ring less successfully has tried to foster since Nat passed not long after Ali/Frazier 1. Their current 2x Ring Champ in the 6 years he held the belt, ie the "Lineal" has a single measly defense against a fighter he slamdunked the year before.

[Willie Pep 229]

- - Not being one of the "everyone" rave cluster, you never answered who Floyd beat to become the Ring Champ, ie Lineal. Ring says it was when he beat ancient Archie after one of the most brutal beatdowns in boxing history the year before vs Rocky.

Arch logged 11 tough fights in that year interval compared to young Floyd's 5 fights. In short, Floyd being unassuming in his intelligently gregarious public conversations, he was the ideal model that Nat was attracted to.

So, it weren't the man in the street consensus, it was just Nat and his Biblical aficionados, and it's that Biblical History that Ring less successfully has tried to foster since Nat passed not long after Ali/Frazier 1. Their current 2x Ring Champ in the 6 years he held the belt, ie the "Lineal" has a single measly defense against a fighter he slamdunked the year before.

I did say directly that it was after the Moore fight.

Yes the press made the call and The Ring Magazine at that time had a powerful voice.

Yes there was a consensus, everyone bought into Patterson being the HW Champion.

It's why there was no hesitation to claim Patterson as the first fighter to regain the title after losing it; why everyone always referred to him as the youngest HW Champion.

I'm sorry but I think you are alone in your assessment; my mother was a Patterson fan, and wasn't even a boxing fan. But she told Patterson was the champion and you wouldn't call my mother liar, would you?

Media recognition has always been part of identifying the lineal Champion and unless you can show me press resistance to Patterson being called HW Champion I am going to call, just as the media did at the time, the Moore-Patterson fight as the eliminator that crowned Patterson

Do you hold the Sharkey- Schmeling fiasco in the same contempt?

The press didn't, there was a consensus that Der Max was champion and he was awarded the damn title sitting on his stool refusing to fight. Why would the press deny Patterson?

I said before, at times it is difficult to identify the lineal champ, at times it has to be manufactured, but with Spinks it was clear and accepted as such, except by those who could gain from denying him, e.g HBO, the scantioning bodies (and I guess you.)

Did you back in 1990 deny that Spinks was lineal champ?

P.S. If Spinks wasn't recognized as the lienal champion why did everyone (including Tyson) want the fight?